Should I switch to all blue?

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Every time this comes up I am amazed at the stupid things people post that they found on the internet.

First, you have to be James Cameron and have a submarine like his to get deep enough to where only blue light penetrates at over 150 meters. Most of the corals in our tanks are collected in waist deep water or on one breath - less than 3 meters where the light is about 6500k. Some of the most sought after corals are in lagoons a few inches deep at low tide, or just flat out of the water.

Second, there are pigments, proteins, sunscreen proteins that all develop with waves from 350-850nm, or so. Then the corals have to have energy to live. The wider the spectrum, the more color that you are going to render in the actual coral.

Third, your LFS is trying to sell you coral. They are usually trying to make their blah corals look better. If they looked good, they would look good under 10k or 14k lighting - check out my rebuild thread and tell me if the corals look bad under non-blue lighting? ...but I choose good corals to begin with and then also can keep them nice looking. Lots of vendors hate it when you ask them to turn the dial on their frag show Kessils more white because they know that you know what good stuff looks like and that they have crappy stuff - the ones with good stuff don't do 100% windex from the get-go.

Lastly, NEVER, EVER, EVER believe a vendor or manufacturer without serious vetting. Some outright lie and all of them misrepresent. EcoTech came up with a BS entity called Coral Lab to say stupid things to sell their LEDs. BRS only focuses on products that they sell even when there are better options on the market. Trust the vendors that only tell you about their products and don't try and editorialize or write a science book.

In short, daylight is the best for actual color rendering and then blue-it-up for an hour or two to look at your corals if you like that look.

Go and find Tullio Del Aquilas Facts of Light presentation from MACNA a few years back. It is an hour. It is kinda dry at times. Stick with it. Pay attention. Seek to learn and not just confirm any existing biases. This will set a VERY good foundation for lighting that you can learn from in years to come. It is probably the best hour that you can spend for your corals this year.
 
Every time this comes up I am amazed at the stupid things people post that they found on the internet.

First, you have to be James Cameron and have a submarine like his to get deep enough to where only blue light penetrates at over 150 meters. Most of the corals in our tanks are collected in waist deep water or on one breath - less than 3 meters where the light is about 6500k. Some of the most sought after corals are in lagoons a few inches deep at low tide, or just flat out of the water.

Second, there are pigments, proteins, sunscreen proteins that all develop with waves from 350-850nm, or so. Then the corals have to have energy to live. The wider the spectrum, the more color that you are going to render in the actual coral.

Third, your LFS is trying to sell you coral. They are usually trying to make their blah corals look better. If they looked good, they would look good under 10k or 14k lighting - check out my rebuild thread and tell me if the corals look bad under non-blue lighting? ...but I choose good corals to begin with and then also can keep them nice looking. Lots of vendors hate it when you ask them to turn the dial on their frag show Kessils more white because they know that you know what good stuff looks like and that they have crappy stuff - the ones with good stuff don't do 100% windex from the get-go.

Lastly, NEVER, EVER, EVER believe a vendor or manufacturer without serious vetting. Some outright lie and all of them misrepresent. EcoTech came up with a BS entity called Coral Lab to say stupid things to sell their LEDs. BRS only focuses on products that they sell even when there are better options on the market. Trust the vendors that only tell you about their products and don't try and editorialize or write a science book.

In short, daylight is the best for actual color rendering and then blue-it-up for an hour or two to look at your corals if you like that look.

Go and find Tullio Del Aquilas Facts of Light presentation from MACNA a few years back. It is an hour. It is kinda dry at times. Stick with it. Pay attention. Seek to learn and not just confirm any existing biases. This will set a VERY good foundation for lighting that you can learn from in years to come. It is probably the best hour that you can spend for your corals this year.
But… AB+ works very well
 
Ab+ works great as single light source, but, if it's only light source, then it's not enough for me....
 
Every time this comes up I am amazed at the stupid things people post that they found on the internet.

First, you have to be James Cameron and have a submarine like his to get deep enough to where only blue light penetrates at over 150 meters. Most of the corals in our tanks are collected in waist deep water or on one breath - less than 3 meters where the light is about 6500k. Some of the most sought after corals are in lagoons a few inches deep at low tide, or just flat out of the water.

Second, there are pigments, proteins, sunscreen proteins that all develop with waves from 350-850nm, or so. Then the corals have to have energy to live. The wider the spectrum, the more color that you are going to render in the actual coral.

Third, your LFS is trying to sell you coral. They are usually trying to make their blah corals look better. If they looked good, they would look good under 10k or 14k lighting - check out my rebuild thread and tell me if the corals look bad under non-blue lighting? ...but I choose good corals to begin with and then also can keep them nice looking. Lots of vendors hate it when you ask them to turn the dial on their frag show Kessils more white because they know that you know what good stuff looks like and that they have crappy stuff - the ones with good stuff don't do 100% windex from the get-go.

Lastly, NEVER, EVER, EVER believe a vendor or manufacturer without serious vetting. Some outright lie and all of them misrepresent. EcoTech came up with a BS entity called Coral Lab to say stupid things to sell their LEDs. BRS only focuses on products that they sell even when there are better options on the market. Trust the vendors that only tell you about their products and don't try and editorialize or write a science book.

In short, daylight is the best for actual color rendering and then blue-it-up for an hour or two to look at your corals if you like that look.

Go and find Tullio Del Aquilas Facts of Light presentation from MACNA a few years back. It is an hour. It is kinda dry at times. Stick with it. Pay attention. Seek to learn and not just confirm any existing biases. This will set a VERY good foundation for lighting that you can learn from in years to come. It is probably the best hour that you can spend for your corals this year.
Tuillo is a vendor and sells his own products. Not sure you can rule out some bias here..

Except for (a ton of granted) circumstantial evidence he has not done any err "science" AFAICT.

As to Coral Labs their study was really led vs t5 and see no reason to question their results including added "circumstantial" evidence.
If you want to run a MH vs led study feel free.
 
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AB+ LED program is way more down the road of full spectrum than blue. The AB+ bulb that it was meant to imitate is very much a full spectrum source that is just bluer to our human eyes.

I admit that I mostly only work in SPS and clams, but there have been many AB+ LED users that have since added T5s and seen vast improvement. I have no doubt that AB+ works well compared to a lot of things.
 
Since white light is just all colors the corals are grabbing everything they can. A full course meal. Blue is just the only color being left out.
Wait, what are we actually seeing?

All I know is that the best corals I had were zoas that grew tall enough to hide my clownfish. Wish I had taken a pic of it.
Ushio 10k halide.
 
I like balanced lighting. I run my kessils at 35% white 65% blue; it looks more natural. Running 100% blues is something I think few do well; it is good for displaying a coral collection more so than a reef tank.
 
Jason Fox would kindly disagree

That is not likely. When he talked about this and people started to misquote him, he used a full spectrum T5 bulb with blue in the name. He also ran about half a photo period of Metal Halides. I have no idea if he has changed or what he does now but when people started to parrot and misinterpret what he said that started this terrible misinformation, it was similar to having some bluer T5 bulbs (ATI Blue Plus ish) and some higher K MH. His lighting leaned blue, but was not even close to just blue.

Besides, if any of you are thinking of doing what a vendor does, then I strongly suggest that you think again. They have different needs, wants and goals than you do. You are much better following a successful hobbyist than a vendor.
 
Jason Fox would kindly disagree
8108B006-9931-4B80-BFC1-4441D93B7934.jpeg


Are you sure??????? Gotta. Connect the dots while keeping in mind that the pointy part of the pyramid faces up.
 
They say corals do not need white light to be healthy and grow. White light is merely for the viewer outside the tank. Corals in the ocean are often found 30' or more with no white light available.
Sorry, that is incorrect. The chlorophyll in most of our coral require a full spectrum. Not many are from the deep.
 
It’s almost like… tanks can have white spectrum in their programming or bulbs yet look blue to our eyes…

Disbelief Reaction GIF
 
Jason Fox would kindly disagree
Nah not really. Everyone goes back to that tour video he did years ago. Cant leave out the fact that he literally shows you metal halides on his largest tank. He also uses the equivalent of blue+(ati)/actinic blue(giesemann) which are essentially the same bulb and in the video he refers to them as "actinics" which is just an old school term for blue bulbs. They're largely a full spectrum bulb just missing the red, which he provides through the use of the purple+/super purple bulb in the mix. Yes, its a visually blue heavy look. No it isnt 6500k. Yes he does say he likes to collect stuff personally on occasion that comes from deeper waters. But don't mistake him for using only blue light. He does not. Really the most interesting part of it all is when he said in all but his metal halide tank he likes to run around 100 par IIRC on everything, including his sps tank inside the house (180 gallon lit by only 4 t5ho bulbs). He would be an outlier of convention running such low light levels on traditionally light loving corals.
 
Tuillo is a vendor and sells his own products. Not sure you can rule out some bias here..

Except for (a ton of granted) circumstantial evidence he has not done any err "science" AFAICT.

As to Coral Labs their study was really led vs t5 and see no reason to question their results including added "circumstantial" evidence.
If you want to run a MH vs led study feel free.

Another great example:

Tullio MACNA talk: Can't rule out vendor bias, mostly non-scientific.

Eco-Tech produced "Reef Lab" Guerilla marketing site: Rare example of Scientific study, no evident bias.


Yeah, that pretty much explains exactly why we end up with a thread like this hahaha
 
@Gordi

If you choose to do something I would suggest this

8108B006-9931-4B80-BFC1-4441D93B7934.jpeg


Add a blue+ T5 tube or upgrade to a top tier LED fixture unless that's what you already have.
 
Another great example:

Tullio MACNA talk: Can't rule out vendor bias, mostly non-scientific.

Eco-Tech produced "Reef Lab" Guerilla marketing site: Rare example of Scientific study, no evident bias.


Yeah, that pretty much explains exactly why we end up with a thread like this hahaha
Maybe Hamilton needs to spend some change on a "study".. ;)
Pretty "honest" if you ask me...
“We started at what looked like the general
spectral mix of our favorite metal halide and
T5 bulbs then over the course of a year slowly
tweaked the schedule and spectrum based on
the ongoing coloration of the corals. Having each
bed half lit with Radion’s® and half with our favorite
metal halide or T5 mix gave us the control or
benchmark. For example if a red dragon frag was
looking better on the T5 side of the trough, then
we might try increasing the blue channel on the
Radion LED side by 5% and evaluate again after
10 days.

Obviously not super scientific but then
our interest is in the result more than the photo-
biochemical mechanism at work.“
- Patrick Foster, CEO Reef Wholesale

But the thing about "science" it is not really to prove stuff but to disprove stuff.
If not disprovable then it is accepted fact..

I cannot prove to you that electrons exist.
No number of scientists in the world can ever prove that the stars are far away, or that the Higg’s Boson exists — or even that the Earth is round (but shh, don’t tell the Flat Earthers that!)
Nobody can prove that things will always fall down when you drop them.
Nobody can prove that energy is conserved.
Nobody can prove that dark matter exists.
Nobody can prove that quantum physics is real.
Because that’s not what science is about.
Proof can only exist when there is no doubt, and there is always doubt. You could be a brain in a vat, living in a crazy simulation. You could be hallucinating everything.

You cannot prove anything.




So, what is to be done?
Well, either you can sit down and just accept that the world is a chaotic insane place, and that since you cannot prove anything about reality, there’s really no point trying.
Or...
You can gather evidence.
That evidence will never be 100% — there’s always the chance that everything you think you know turns out to be false — but the evidence allows you to make current-best-evidence-guesses (for want of a better term) about the behavior of the universe.
We can build up piles and piles of evidence for ideas.

When the pile reaches a certain height, it behoves us to begin to take it rather seriously.

That is, until someone removes a critical piece from the bottom of the pile, and the entire edifice comes crashing down.
Then what?

Well, you start a new pile. And you have another go. And another. And another.
 

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