Should I test for ammonia after bioload increase?

[brandon429]

I had to work to earn back the discussion after I snooted him for being not digital originally. It’s getting common enough nowadays / this $59 meter / I better quit that.

 

[TWYOUNG]

I had to work to earn back the discussion after I snooted him for being not digital originally. It’s getting common enough nowadays / this $59 meter / I better quit that.

You're forgiven !

 

[TWYOUNG]

No nerve struck its awesome you can provide digital data we like that

If it's the seachem one please do, we're building logs of how those read in tanks. The meter is new we don't have a lot of pattern reads from it

What does your ammonia run now curious to know

*don't take umbrage to the disease relay, it's merely a summary of info you can clearly see in Jay's forum and likely already applied


Any data charts you can provide for digital ammonia measures will be a joy to see, considering how you cycled and that degree of rock

Don't take offense to a clear answer to your post title, you aren't required to test after adding bioload. You got the detailed breakdown as to why that's the case

It sounds like you want to test, electively though, and I'd like to see it.

Mr. SW was getting .19 nh4 on his hanna meter in his reef, what does yours run/ after adding bioload let us know too

If you have seneye that's best case scenario

Here are baseline ammonia tests you were interested with pics After three identical results I don't anticipate rechecking until something changes.

 

[brandon429]

That's one heck of a clean api reading as well vm appreciated

 

[TWYOUNG]

That's one heck of a clean api reading as well vm appreciated

You're welcome. Yes one thing I have right now is clean water. 0.0 nitrates, ( HR Hanna), 0.0 phosphates,(Hanna ULR). Been heavy feeding x3/day for few weeks and started dosing TM Plus-NP with no response thus far.

 

[brandon429]

Though I have dug and dug lol I cannot find one single fault in your tests and if everyone had your same tests then all stuck cycle posts would cease in the hobby and I'd have to find a new multi decade passion

Good thing they don't

 

[TWYOUNG]

Though I have dug and dug lol I cannot find one single fault in your tests and if everyone had your same tests then all stuck cycle posts would cease in the hobby and I'd have to find a new multi decade passion

Good thing they don't

Well, I never considered I had a, "stuck cycle", I did however spend over three weeks cycling my tank. When I describe this please keep in mind I'm not making things up as I go, rather I'm taking in advice from all directions and trying to go with what makes sense to me. I cycled with Algae Barn products, Nitrocycle and Turbo 900. My advice from them was, if ammonia disappears but nitrite remains add more Nitrocycle. If both remain after a week or so add more bacteria. Initially I added a second bottle of bacteria and eventually eliminated ammonia but continued dosing nitrocycle as nitrites remained >5. I had read the recommendation to continue re-dosing ammonia to bring the level up to 1.0 ppm until that amount of ammonia could be processed within 24 hrs. This made sense to me and seemed to be a good way to build and demonstrate a strong biofilter. Since I continued to have high nitrites I wasn't ready to " call it a cycle", anyway so I figured why not. After ammonia reached zero for the third time, (never within 24 hours but 48-72), I was admonished by my online peers that the tank WAS cycled a likely had been for some time, even though nitrites were still high. At that same point my nitrites went from 5 to zero in one day, (which I had heard could happen), and I began stocking the tank. Sorry for the length but it seems the nitrogen cycling process seems of interest to you.

 

[Rmckoy]

Given you’re adding one fish in a well
Established system there should be no need to test ammonia .
Does ammonia rise when you feed daily ?

 

[brandon429]

Their nitro cycle setup is just solid, just about fail proof it seems across posts using it

 

[TWYOUNG]

Given you’re adding one fish in a well
Established system there should be no need to test ammonia .
Does ammonia rise when you feed daily ?

Don't think so although I'm feeding three times/day so there's never much time between feeds to test. Thus far I've tested three times and each result was 0.07 total ammonia.

 

[TWYOUNG]

Here are baseline ammonia tests you were interested with pics After three identical results I don't anticipate rechecking until something changes.

Nothing new with the tank but I got slightly different readings today so here they are

 

[brandon429]

You have the best tests and the best testing technique so far, all these kits line up to your display pics, if everyone had these kits + clean test procedure we'd have nothing to bicker about in stuck cycle threads

 

[TWYOUNG]

You have the best tests and the best testing technique so far, all these kits line up to your display pics, if everyone had these kits + clean test procedure we'd have nothing to bicker about in stuck cycle threads

Thanks. I'm still getting 0.0 Nitrate & Phosphate results. Last week I even had to repeat the phosphate test after getting an error message. The checker thought I was testing an unreacted sample but it was not ! I'm getting conflicting information as to how concerned I should be about this in a new and currently fish only tank. I'm told everything from, "get them up immediately or dinos are coming soon", to, "just keep feeding heavily and wait until you have more livestock". Some feel undetectable nutrients is the cause of dinos, while others consider it to be due to an imbalance in the 10-20 to one nitrate/phosphate ratio. I dosed TM Plus-NP for a few weeks, eventually doubling the dose with no effect. I've also been cautioned, (by someone who seemed knowledgeable, or at least considerably more so than myself), that nutrient dosing should be avoided this early in a tanks development as it may negatively effect the ongoing microbial battle. His feeling is you don't know which organisms will take advantage of those added nutrients and it could be some nuisance ones. Lastly it's been suggested I remove some of the 24 Marinepure cubes I have in my sump. They're there as a home for pods more so than bio filtration. Thoughts?

 

[brandon429]

No jury agrees on dinos controls its wild west still on that invasion, everyone works with the battle as best they can and nobody knows how to beat them universally, new challenges pop up routinely using previous methods to no avail


In my tank cycle threads we don't try and lower N or P levels with things like biopellets or gfo. Simply not trying to drive those numbers down gets us enough dinos prevention I'll hold that pattern till a better one arises. Dosing the N and or P boosters i don't find harmful it just makes the new tank uglies more pronounced.

Some people prevent uglies using dosing methods nobody is consistent yet though/ able to fix others tanks outbound

Regarding your marine pure surface area I'm positive it's neutral impact. Add ten more, remove the ones you have and never put back, does not matter either way to pods or ammonia control in any reef tank. We're all so vastly over what the surface area needs are within reef tanks to control ammonia that adding more or taking away some just does not matter.

 

[TWYOUNG]

No jury agrees on dinos controls its wild west still on that invasion, everyone works with the battle as best they can and nobody knows how to beat them universally, new challenges pop up routinely using previous methods to no avail


In my tank cycle threads we don't try and lower N or P levels with things like biopellets or gfo. Simply not trying to drive those numbers down gets us enough dinos prevention I'll hold that pattern till a better one arises. Dosing the N and or P boosters i don't find harmful it just makes the new tank uglies more pronounced.

Some people prevent uglies using dosing methods nobody is consistent yet though/ able to fix others tanks outbound

Regarding your marine pure surface area I'm positive it's neutral impact. Add ten more, remove the ones you have and never put back, does not matter either way to pods or ammonia control in any reef tank. We're all so vastly over what the surface area needs are within reef tanks to control ammonia that adding more or taking away some just does not matter.

Thanks. What' the thought process behind removing Marinepure cubes then adding new ones?

 

[Garf]

Nothing new with the tank but I got slightly different readings today so here they are

I would dose a TriSodium Phosphate to get the phosphate numbers up a tad, but there’s no gaurantee.

 

[brandon429]

my statement on removing/adding the spheres was to express the extreme case on how much they do not matter in reef systems, they provide zero help/they don't harm anything when removed just the same.

They would be a critical, crucial element of surface area in a system that had no rocks or sand, though (since no reef tanks are set up that way, these spheres aren't needed in reefing, they're needed in heavy fish stocked freshwater setups/those are low surface area aquariums)

they could be very helpful and crucial in quarantine setups (no rock stacks in the center water)

Our minds simply cannot envision a system in which a portion of a biofilter is removed in a reef display, let's say in this case it represents 3% of your total active biofilter surface area to remove those spheres, and the overall cycling ability of the aquarium doesn't drop to 97%

it does not work that way in biosystems that employ as much live rock as we do right in the middle of the display circulating wastewater. pods hide there, nitrification of ammonia occurs on surfaces and by plant uptake there/the spheres are the same dynamics of anyone on this site hooking up 7 canister filters to their already-running reef tank.


after 6 mos, those 7 canister filters are absolutely linked into, and sharing bacteria and waste control with the whole system. they are what the old school cyclers would call bound into the system, crucial bacteria they carry, like those spheres in your tank.


but you can go right in and remove all 7 canister filters immediately, without ramp up, and on any calibrated seneye (or that fine hanna meter above) your ammonia control will NOT change it will stay the same as it was before you added the 7 canisters, and the very hour after you removed them (subject to small daily changes but never hitting and sustaining toxic levels-this is how reefs run before the extra canisters were hooked up)

a rock stack will control ammonia into the thousands ppm nh3 for 99% of reefers and for the other 1% on micro stacked nano reefs, tenths ppm is the most you'll ever see as nh3 form, going off all seneye patterns and so far all these hanna checkers too.


7 canister filters are neutral impact to any reef tank on this board, and marine pure biospheres are the very same. were it not for these big rock stacks we all keep, we'd need all that freshwater surface area help.

any reef on this entire board can remove its canister or hang on filter immediately from the display, and nothing will change about their cycle when using seneye meters, we've been testing that for years now in the sand rinse thread. I can yank someone's entire sandbed on seneye or mindstream (another digital device from 6~ years ago) and the conversion rates stay the same.


we are free to add and remove surface area at all in reefing due to the power of the rock stacks we all copy from one another in scale, in all reef setups small to large. We even go so far as to remove people's sand + half their active rock stack, to make more open scapes, and even that doesn't change filtration ability in the tank. Even our rock stacks are orders beyond what's needed to control a common reef tank bioload in terms of nh3 management.


This is the #1 reason why in four threads right now bumped in the chem forum you can see me vehemently disagreeing with anyone who says a 9 month old reef tank somehow lost it's ability to control ammonia/nh3

 

[TWYOUNG]

my statement on removing/adding the spheres was to express the extreme case on how much they do not matter in reef systems, they provide zero help/they don't harm anything when removed just the same.

They would be a critical, crucial element of surface area in a system that had no rocks or sand, though (since no reef tanks are set up that way, these spheres aren't needed in reefing, they're needed in heavy fish stocked freshwater setups/those are low surface area aquariums)

they could be very helpful and crucial in quarantine setups (no rock stacks in the center water)

Our minds simply cannot envision a system in which a portion of a biofilter is removed in a reef display, let's say in this case it represents 3% of your total active biofilter surface area to remove those spheres, and the overall cycling ability of the aquarium doesn't drop to 97%

it does not work that way in biosystems that employ as much live rock as we do right in the middle of the display circulating wastewater. pods hide there, nitrification of ammonia occurs on surfaces and by plant uptake there/the spheres are the same dynamics of anyone on this site hooking up 7 canister filters to their already-running reef tank.


after 6 mos, those 7 canister filters are absolutely linked into, and sharing bacteria and waste control with the whole system. they are what the old school cyclers would call bound into the system, crucial bacteria they carry, like those spheres in your tank.


but you can go right in and remove all 7 canister filters immediately, without ramp up, and on any calibrated seneye (or that fine hanna meter above) your ammonia control will NOT change it will stay the same as it was before you added the 7 canisters, and the very hour after you removed them (subject to small daily changes but never hitting and sustaining toxic levels-this is how reefs run before the extra canisters were hooked up)

a rock stack will control ammonia into the thousands ppm nh3 for 99% of reefers and for the other 1% on micro stacked nano reefs, tenths ppm is the most you'll ever see as nh3 form, going off all seneye patterns and so far all these hanna checkers too.


7 canister filters are neutral impact to any reef tank on this board, and marine pure biospheres are the very same. were it not for these big rock stacks we all keep, we'd need all that freshwater surface area help.

any reef on this entire board can remove its canister or hang on filter immediately from the display, and nothing will change about their cycle when using seneye meters, we've been testing that for years now in the sand rinse thread. I can yank someone's entire sandbed on seneye or mindstream (another digital device from 6~ years ago) and the conversion rates stay the same.


we are free to add and remove surface area at all in reefing due to the power of the rock stacks we all copy from one another in scale, in all reef setups small to large. We even go so far as to remove people's sand + half their active rock stack, to make more open scapes, and even that doesn't change filtration ability in the tank. Even our rock stacks are orders beyond what's needed to control a common reef tank bioload in terms of nh3 management.


This is the #1 reason why in four threads right now bumped in the chem forum you can see me vehemently disagreeing with anyone who says a 9 month old reef tank somehow lost it's ability to control ammonia/nh3

Two things I wanted to mention. First, do you not consider the Marinepure cubes to provide a refuge from predation for my pods in an otherwise empty fuge? At least that's why Algae Barn included them when I initially ordered pods.
As for the SA biofilter issue, an error I made a couple of months ago would provide support for your view. My old 55gal FOWLR has been running for 30+ years so it's obviously very stable. It's filtration consists of a large HOT filter with floss and Fluval noodles. For additional filtration I have a canister with sponge, floss and ceramic media. Once a MONTH I clean the canister and inadvertently neglected to plug it back in after maintenance. This mistake was not discovered until the following month. At that point the filter had obviously gone anaerobic and smelled awful. I replaced the mechanical media and after thorough rinsing decided to keep the ceramic "noodles". Looking back the noodles were clearly unnecessary. In a panic I immediately tested for ammonia/nitrite for several days,(although I did not have a digital tester at that time), Never had a trace of water quality issues.

 

[brandon429]

hey neat on the measure above, clearly you have the kits for that kind of data scoop

*so glad you did not turn on the filter with the stew inside it, I sure have before/forgot to clean after 8 hour power outage/lost 100% of fish in about 3 mins, full tank of freshwater fish.

 

[brandon429]

if there were predating fish in the refugium I could understand a place to hide being beneficial, it certainly won't hurt to have them, at least they're not focused for ammonia control. even with no fish/as a pod refuge not a problem. I bought some strange squares to put into my freshwater neo shrimp tank, I thought they looked all futuristic lol.

the shrimp did crawl on them, best $15 I ever spent heh