Should i turn off skimmer when adding live rock to seed?

[daybreaksky]

I also added 15 lbs of cured live rock to help

adding rock could be good or bad. if it's live and established and was under water the whole time, then it will help. if it touched air for a while during transport etc it may spike things due to instant die off and raise ammonia again briefly

 

[Makubex]

Ammonia is just a hint from the lfs, at least thats what the guy said it was .5

 

[Makubex]

Also the angels tail is healing

 

[Makubex]

Okay so its DEFINITELY better than before adding the bio spira but nitrites and nitrates are still very very high-how long does this product take? Like i said the tail is healing could this all be because of the new live rock(although i doubt it because i did add live rock 14 days ago and it did nothing)

 

[daybreaksky]

you adding live rock 14 days ago and this happening doesn't add up. I can think of 3 things

1. the rock was exposed to extended environmental change like air exposure, cold, heat
2. your dry rock had lots of organic matter decaying after it got wet
3. you had contamination in your tank such as copper medication or antibiotics (furan, general cure, etc) that killed the rock

those 2 things would make the live rock very dead and the result would be exactly what you have experienced here.



the bottle stuff is live bacteria and it will take a bit to establish itself on surfaces and it grows exponentially. You currently have 3 sources of ammonia the fish breathing, leftover food/poop, and whatever last spike killed off your rock like pods, worms, stars etc. my last 2 tanks took 2-3 days to be fully sustaining.

you won't see the numbers for nitrite and nitrate go down until ammonia hits 0.

Can you post some actual numbers for Ammonia and nitrites, its hard to tell what the progress is without the actual number.

you can perform a 25-50% water change tomorrow, that should give you enough time for bacteria to colonize dry rock surface etc.

do you have sand or is it bare bottom?

when doing a water change make sure new water parameters are exactly the same especially specific gravity and temperature of the new water or you will continue to cause die off and spikes.

Do not expose your rock to air when doing the water change to preserve that new biofilm

this might be simple but is the water dechlorinated or RO/DI?

I would also skip a day of feeding, it should help and give biofilter time to catch up.

 

[Makubex]

you adding live rock 14 days ago and this happening doesn't add up. I can think of 3 things

1. the rock was exposed to extended environmental change like air exposure, cold, heat
2. your dry rock had lots of organic matter decaying after it got wet
3. you had contamination in your tank such as copper medication or antibiotics (furan, general cure, etc) that killed the rock

those 2 things would make the live rock very dead and the result would be exactly what you have experienced here.



the bottle stuff is live bacteria and it will take a bit to establish itself on surfaces and it grows exponentially. You currently have 3 sources of ammonia the fish breathing, leftover food/poop, and whatever last spike killed off your rock like pods, worms, stars etc. my last 2 tanks took 2-3 days to be fully sustaining.

you won't see the numbers for nitrite and nitrate go down until ammonia hits 0.

Can you post some actual numbers for Ammonia and nitrites, its hard to tell what the progress is without the actual number.

you can perform a 25-50% water change tomorrow, that should give you enough time for bacteria to colonize dry rock surface etc.

do you have sand or is it bare bottom?

when doing a water change make sure new water parameters are exactly the same especially specific gravity and temperature of the new water or you will continue to cause die off and spikes.

Do not expose your rock to air when doing the water change to preserve that new biofilm

this might be simple but is the water dechlorinated or RO/DI?

I would also skip a day of feeding, it should help and give biofilter time to catch up.

10 lbs of dry rock had been sitting for like a year and a half outside water so no dying organisms on top-i did rinse it, i have sand, 20 lbs of dry rock was sitting in sw for months but no fish then i took it out for months and it became dry rock again, the parameters are close to a bit better now but still pretty high, ill get a new ammonia test kit and lyk what is its level, its dechlorinated water but i wont use that anymore as it does have a hint of ammonia, ill be getting rodi from lfs

 

[daybreaksky]

oof ya that makes sense.

the dry rock you had was colonized by organisms when it was wet, then when it was dried, they died but they don't just go away, they are now dead tissue inside every micropore of the rock. then when rehydrated they all become dead organic matter that starts decomposing in to ammonia > nitrites > nitrates. fresh dry rock purchased from a store is lime rock dug from out of the ground and usually has a shorter cycle than what you have. For this very reason many people soak the old dried out live rock in acid or bleach before curing and cycling it.

It will cycle, and it will be fine. don't add anything or make any drastic changes at this point, feed very little for a few days to let it catch up. do small water changes if necessary to lower stress for the fish. Bacteria grows exponentially so it starts slow but accelerates.

Unfortunately the fish shouldn't be in your tank at this point so it adds complications, hopefully they make it through this.

 

[Makubex]

What if i take out that dry rock that has dying organisms on top and messing up my water? Can i bleach them now then cure em and then put em back safely? Thanks

 

[daybreaksky]

Definitely no.

Keep parameters stable and let the bacteria colonize and do it's thing.

do not take out or put anything in the tank.

Monitor ammonia as it's the biggest threat to the fish and perform a water change if it starts to increase instead of going down.

There is nothing wrong with doing what you did so far with the exception of having fish in the tank during this process.

The only thing that will mess things up at this point is anything that will cause the bacteria colonies to die off such as meds, antibiotics, sudden temperature and parameter changes.

 

[Makubex]

Definitely no.

Keep parameters stable and let the bacteria colonize and do it's thing.

do not take out or put anything in the tank.

Monitor ammonia as it's the biggest threat to the fish and perform a water change if it starts to increase instead of going down.

There is nothing wrong with doing what you did so far with the exception of having fish in the tank during this process.

The only thing that will mess things up at this point is anything that will cause the bacteria colonies to die off such as meds, antibiotics, sudden temperature and parameter changes.

By parameters you mean the ph, salinity and temperature, exposure to air, anything else? I took out the coral beauty angel

 

[daybreaksky]

temp and salinity. Also if you use a lot of hand sanitizer or antibacterial soap, rinse you hands well or use non-antibac dish soap before putting your hands in the tank.

 

[Makubex]

Tap water ammonia

 

[Makubex]

Tanks ammonia is between .25-.50 and nitrite .45, nitrates are border line safe now(40ppm), is just the ammonia and nitrite that are spiked now...

 

[daybreaksky]

holy cow, then is this the water used to top-off and water changes at the moment?

 

[Makubex]

holy cow, then is this the water used to top-off and water changes at the moment?

Correct, irl it looks more closer to zero, i think(the tap water ammonia)

 

[daybreaksky]

When I lived in an apartment and didn't have an RO I used to buy RO water at walmart, it was pretty cheap. they sell it in those big blue 5g jugs. it may be best to use that to top-off. you are basically dosing ammonia to your tank. you are restarting your cycle every time water is changed and it all converts to Nitrites > Nitrates. This would be a priority to fix

 

[Makubex]

When I lived in an apartment and didn't have an RO I used to buy RO water at walmart, it was pretty cheap. they sell it in those big blue 5g jugs. it may be best to use that to top-off. you are basically dosing ammonia to your tank. you are restarting your cycle every time water is changed and it all converts to Nitrites > Nitrates. This would be a priority to fix

I havent done a water change yet since a week ago, im using rodi water from lfs from now on, TODAY the levels appear almost the same as 12 hours ago, nitrates are 40, nitrites went a lil bit higher for some reason to .50, is this it? Its been almost 2 days with the bio spira... is this the end? Or 1 and 12 hours more? I feel like this is it and im gonna be stuck with these parameters from now on lol, the white dot came back on the angels tail as well as an ich spot on his right fin, the ammonia though... looked MUCH better! Here are its new results(is at .25 or less apparently) irl it looks a lil bit brighter definetely not duller!

 

[daybreaksky]

so Ammonia converts to Nitrites so if ammonia went down and nitrites went up it's part of the process, the nitrites will convert to nitrates. Both ammonia and nitrites need to be 0. then you can worry about nitrates they are the least toxic of the 3, you won't get an accurate reading until then. just don't change anything and don't overfeed. I'm sure your fish is stressed though.

def. not stuck with the parameters as long as no new ammonia is added or die off occurs the bacteria will consume the first 2.

 

[John08007]

dang...! My angelfish already has something white at the tip of his tail is like a dot where he was bitten

May be ich from the stress

 

[Makubex]

so Ammonia converts to Nitrites so if ammonia went down and nitrites went up it's part of the process, the nitrites will convert to nitrates. Both ammonia and nitrites need to be 0. then you can worry about nitrates they are the least toxic of the 3, you won't get an accurate reading until then. just don't change anything and don't overfeed. I'm sure your fish is stressed though.

def. not stuck with the parameters as long as no new ammonia is added or die off occurs the bacteria will consume the first 2.

Ammonia and nitrites need to be 0.00? Ive read u can have .1 for ammonia(but thats the top) and nitrites .2(again this is the limit)