Should I worry?

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

One of my chromis has had this for like 2-3 weeks. Is it just from fighting for food in a 40g breeder? Currently 1 yellow tang, 2 clowns, 1 six line, 1 hippo tang and the 3 chromis? I did copper for 30 days so far.

Humblefish · Aug 15, 2016

That could be the beginnings of Uronema marinum: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

After reading that, you will be glad you QT'd.

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

So what should I do. They've been in quarentine for 45 days. Copper for 30 of those days. Can I transfer the other fish? There is 0 red in the marks. You may not remember but you helped me set up my hospital plans a little over a month ago. I started with ruby reef and kick ich and after it didn't do anything I move to copper.

Humblefish · Aug 15, 2016

Griff said:
So what should I do. They've been in quarentine for 45 days. Copper for 30 of those days. Can I transfer the other fish? There is 0 red in the marks. You may not remember but you helped me set up my hospital plans a little over a month ago. I started with ruby reef and kick ich and after it didn't do anything I move to copper.

I would just observe for now. Don't transfer any of those fish into your DT. If this is uronema, those white splotches will turn into red sores. However, it might just be battle scars from your fish fighting in QT. Have you noticed any aggression between them?

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

The yellow tang beats up on everyone during feeding time

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

The spots have been there for a while at least 2 weeks. I thought uronema as well but thought it would progress faster based on what I've read. My concer was that the copper and or ruby reef slowed the uronema. I have prazipro which I was planning on using in dt. I guess I could do it in hospital tank instead. I'm really itching to get these fish in display. I know the prazipro won't do anything for uronema. How long should I wait before seeing the red? Is the two weeks or more that it's been there enough already?

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

I also don't see increased slime coat

Humblefish · Aug 15, 2016

Griff said:
The yellow tang beats up on everyone during feeding time

His scalpel might be the source of the marks on the chromis. I hate Yellow Tangs.

Humblefish · Aug 15, 2016

Griff said:
The spots have been there for a while at least 2 weeks. I thought uronema as well but thought it would progress faster based on what I've read. My concer was that the copper and or ruby reef slowed the uronema. I have prazipro which I was planning on using in dt. I guess I could do it in hospital tank instead. I'm really itching to get these fish in display. I know the prazipro won't do anything for uronema. How long should I wait before seeing the red? Is the two weeks or more that it's been there enough already?

That's the problem. Supposedly copper treats uronema, but IME all it does is just slow the progression of the disease down. IME; CP works better, although I've been reading how formalin baths are pretty effective against it as well.

This is what I would do in your shoes: Remove all the chromis to another QT with non-medicated water. It can just be a 5 gallon bucket with a bubbler and a heater. If this is uronema, it should spread (and kill) fast once removed from copper.

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

Fast is relative. Hours or days? If days 1-3 3-7? If it uronema what do I do with the existing fish in quarentine. Copper levels are dropping in qt as I already went 30 days and I'm not adding copper back in as I do water changes. I also added the carbon filter back in.

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

Thanks for all your help.

Humblefish · Aug 15, 2016

Griff said:
Fast is relative. Hours or days? If days 1-3 3-7? If it uronema what do I do with the existing fish in quarentine. Copper levels are dropping in qt as I already went 30 days and I'm not adding copper back in as I do water changes. I also added the carbon filter back in.

They should turn to red sores within a few days if no chemicals are present to prevent the disease from progressing.

If uronema does get confirmed, I would dose metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex) for a week in the QT to be sure the disease doesn't get transmitted into the DT. Actually, giving all the fish a formalin bath and then transferring into another QT predosed with either CP or metro would be the safest route to take. But that might be too much hassle for most normal people.

Griff · Aug 15, 2016

I have metro on hand. I'll do as suggested with 5 gallon bucket and watch for 3 days

Griff · Aug 16, 2016

@Humblefish
So I was planning on moving the chromies to the 5g bucket tonight and when I went down to observe while they ate and one of the spots is starting to turn red! I'm freaking out about it!

Fish in QT are as follows

Hippo tang
Yellow tang
2 clowns
1 six line wrasse
3 chromies

I'd rather not mess with formalin as I have small children in the house. I was thinking 50% water change then dose the metro. Remove all carbon first.

I've spent so much on this new build I really don't want this in my dt. Would you just count this particular chromi as a loss and put him down or will the metro work well enough to rid them of the disease. I could maybe try and take them back to the LFS and get store credit. I guess I won't buy from them anymore if you can't rid the system of it. I'd just have to treat for it every time right?

Any dosing tips for the metro?
Am I missing anything here? Am I asking the right questions?

Griff · Aug 16, 2016

Also I read that you said the parasite can live without fish host but couldn't you treat display tank with metro and rid the tank of it that way?

Humblefish · Aug 16, 2016

I have never actually tested metronidazole or acriflavine out on uronema, so I cannot speak first hand of their effectiveness. However, the literature mentions both as effective treatments.

My MO for treating uronema is administering a FW dip or formalin bath, followed by CP treatment in a QT. I know that works.

As callous as this sounds, I would ditch the chromis. Treat them if you like, but never put them in your DT. It is not worth the risk IMO.

As for your other fish in QT, I would dose metro every 48 hrs for at least a week. Transfer the fish into the DT a few hours after administering the final dose in a week. Odds are metro won't completely eradicate uronema from a tank, but rather prevents the fish from being infected.

Humblefish · Aug 16, 2016

When this is all over, break that QT down, sanitize it with bleach and let it air dry for a week before ever using it again. Uronema is not a disease to be trifled with.

Griff · Aug 16, 2016

Humblefish said:
When this is all over, break that QT down, sanitize it with bleach and let it air dry for a week before ever using it again. Uronema is not a disease to be trifled with.

Would you ditch the hang on the back filter or just clean with bleach

Humblefish · Aug 16, 2016

Griff said:
Would you ditch the hang on the back filter or just clean with bleach

Clean it with bleach and then let air dry thoroughly. 24 hrs of complete dryness kills any disease that was once alive in water.

Griff · Aug 17, 2016

Humblefish said:
Clean it with bleach and then let air dry thoroughly. 24 hrs of complete dryness kills any disease that was once alive in water.

Good to know!

Took out the chromies tonight and did 50% water change. I'll dose again day after tomorrow. Think I should do another large water change before next dose?

Also is the fresh water dip before going into display helpful? How much better is the formalin bath?

Also My old tank is empty but not drained. Would you treat for 1 week then move to the old tank for observation or would you go straight to the dt after 1 week treatment? I think I know the answer to this one based on what I'm dealing with. It's just another step

.
I feel like nothing has gone right with this build.