Shout out to my local Petsmart

[anthonygf]

Goldfish are largely herbivorous, mostly eating worms and algae. It's pretty unusual to find one that will try to eat live fish. Like how tangs won't try to eat saltwater-acclimated guppies. Their mouths aren't set up for it.

You can also check Craigslist for goldfish that someone doesn't want any more. They'll likely be stunted and may not live as long, but at least you can try for a good habitat for the rest of their lifespan.

Yes I know that but I have seen large goldfish eat small fish if not fed enough. Tangs do have tiny mouths but I bet will eat guppy fry with gusto. I see mine suck up large flake food easily.

 

[Tired]

Cold water slows a fish's metabolism and holds more oxygen, so when we're dealing with hibernating fish, they don't need much oxygen exchange.

It's a myth that working dogs suffer frequent tail injuries. Well- frequent, /severe/ tail injuries. Maybe frequent tiny scratches. Any veterinarian who deals with working dogs will tell you as much. Veterinary practices that deal with a lot of working dogs might see a couple of bad tail injuries a year, or less- certainly not enough to be worth cutting off every tail in case they get hurt at all. Besides, if there's a need for short-tailed dogs, we should just breed for short tails. People claim it's for the dog's benefit, but it's not- it started because people used to think it would somehow prevent rabies, and now it's an aesthetics thing.
Tail docking, aside from being cruel, runs the risk of developing nerve issues at the stub. It can also be linked to urinary issues, and removes a major part of a dog's ability to communicate expressions to other dogs.
Think of it this way: nobody's suggesting construction workers should cut off all their toes, so they can't break a toe in the future.

Declawing is even worse than you think. It involves removing the entire first bone of each toe, because the claw is attached to that. In cats, that's the bone that supports most of their weight. They wind up walking on the ends of the second bones. It causes chronic pain which may be severe, very frequently causes them to stop using the litterbox (because the litter hurts their feet now), and causes a host of behavioral issues due to the pain. It also makes them more likely to bite, since they have no ability to scratch now. And, again- chronic pain. If a cat is scratching people, the people need to stop scaring the cat. If a cat is scratching furniture, the people need to provide alternate scratching posts, trim the cat's claws with a stress-free method, and consider claw caps. If the claws are still a dealbreaker, trade the cat in for a dog.

 

[anthonygf]

Cold water slows a fish's metabolism and holds more oxygen, so when we're dealing with hibernating fish, they don't need much oxygen exchange.

It's a myth that working dogs suffer frequent tail injuries. Well- frequent, /severe/ tail injuries. Maybe frequent tiny scratches. Any veterinarian who deals with working dogs will tell you as much. Veterinary practices that deal with a lot of working dogs might see a couple of bad tail injuries a year, or less- certainly not enough to be worth cutting off every tail in case they get hurt at all. Besides, if there's a need for short-tailed dogs, we should just breed for short tails. People claim it's for the dog's benefit, but it's not- it started because people used to think it would somehow prevent rabies, and now it's an aesthetics thing.
Tail docking, aside from being cruel, runs the risk of developing nerve issues at the stub. It can also be linked to urinary issues, and removes a major part of a dog's ability to communicate expressions to other dogs.
Think of it this way: nobody's suggesting construction workers should cut off all their toes, so they can't break a toe in the future.

Declawing is even worse than you think. It involves removing the entire first bone of each toe, because the claw is attached to that. In cats, that's the bone that supports most of their weight. They wind up walking on the ends of the second bones. It causes chronic pain which may be severe, very frequently causes them to stop using the litterbox (because the litter hurts their feet now), and causes a host of behavioral issues due to the pain. It also makes them more likely to bite, since they have no ability to scratch now. And, again- chronic pain. If a cat is scratching people, the people need to stop scaring the cat. If a cat is scratching furniture, the people need to provide alternate scratching posts, trim the cat's claws with a stress-free method, and consider claw caps. If the claws are still a dealbreaker, trade the cat in for a dog.

WOW! Very good information. I hate seeing people declaw cats, makes me mad. If the cat gets outside he can not defend himself against predators. I was an animal control officer a little over 20 years ago and seen some sad stuff. Our pound keeper would euthanized kittens brought in by someone unable to care for them, I reported him and he was terminated, yea.
A small boy jumped on his sleeping dog, a black Lab, the dog woke up tearing the boys face up. I had to make the report and seen his face, a dozen lacerations when I looked at him in ER. The owner wanted to put his dog down but I pleaded with him that the dog was scared for his life and just defending himself. He would not listen or give him up for adoption, he put his dog down. I only wish I had aurthority to stop him. I was so sad for the boy and the dog.

 

[James_O]

White cloud mountain minnows are often sold at pet stores, and are a coldwater fish. You'll want to look up if they can be kept in ponds, but I'd bet they can. Flagfish are unusual to see for sale, but are pretty, and definitely do well in ponds. Or you could catch a couple sunfish from a local pond, by whatever means is legal. Longear sunfish males have really pretty colors when they're in breeding season. They're territorial, but 800 gallons should be plenty of room.

WCMM are cold water fish, and can usually be kept in ponds. (Assuming the pond has a de-icer for winter)

However, they make very tasty snacks for all sort of wild creatures. (Birds, pets, raccoons, snakes, etc.)

Unless the pond has a net covering it, I would be hesitant to adding them.

—-

Flagfish are pretty cool, but should stay in the aquarium. They are considered cold water fish and are extremely hardy, being able to cope with extreme hardness levels.

But here again, they are super small and make easy prey.

—-

Catching wild fish and keeping them as pets is pretty much illegal in all states, unless you have a permit.

If you could obtain such permit, then yes, it would be pretty cool to have Bluegill/Sunfish in your pond.

800 gallons might be enough room for a few Redear/Longear sunfish, but as you said, they are extremely territorial during the breeding season.

I’ve seen them almost fight to the death before in the wild.

—-

There would also be some aggression issues between the goldfish and the sunfish.

The sunfish would also eat the WCMM’s and the Flagfish, which would not be good.

———

So overall, this is not a good idea.

 

[anthonygf]

Also I like to add, I went on a call one day to a cat that went crazy and cut up (not scratched) this woman's arm so bad, lacerations on both arms from her hands to the shoulder. Both arms were red blood dripping to the ground. She managed to get the cat in a cage and it tried to attack me. I had to euthanize the cat and take it to the State Pathology lab to check for rabies.

 

[James_O]

Goldfish are largely herbivorous, mostly eating worms and algae. It's pretty unusual to find one that will try to eat live fish. Like how tangs won't try to eat saltwater-acclimated guppies. Their mouths aren't set up for it.

You can also check Craigslist for goldfish that someone doesn't want any more. They'll likely be stunted and may not live as long, but at least you can try for a good habitat for the rest of their lifespan.

I agree that goldfish usually don’t eat minnows, but sunfish will definitely eat them.

 

[anthonygf]

I agree that goldfish usually don’t eat minnows, but sunfish will definitely eat them.

Yes minnows are not their usual diet but if you don't feed the goldfish they will if they can get them in their mouth, I have seen it myself. I knew someone that had large goldfish and purposely did not feed them for a week I think and threw in a handful of bait minnows and the goldfish went crazy, gobbled them up. Just like piranhas.

 

[Tired]

Well, yeah, starving fish will do a lot of weird things. Piranha don't attack large prey unless starved, but starving redtail piranha will take on things hundreds of times their size.

And yes, I should have clarified: I was throwing out ideas, not listing a bunch of things to all put together. Sunfish are predatory, not for keeping with small fish you don't want eaten. Sunfish and goldfish might get along, depending on space, cover, and sunfish species. Longears are only moderately aggressive most of the time, and during breeding season, they'll chase everything in the nest area but leave everything outside it alone. At least with the Texas ones. I watch them at the river sometimes, and they'll ignore anything that's not in or immediately next to the area they clean out for their nest. I also used to keep them in a freshwater tank, and my local garden center has a couple of them in the goldfish pond. Cool fish.

If you can get a warmouth sunfish, you could try one of those. They're sorta like a small freshwater grouper. Definitely don't put them with anything that isn't at least nearly as big as they are, they have large mouths, but they generally ignore things that aren't food.

Most game fish are illegal to catch and keep without permits, varying depending on state. However, sunfish aren't game fish in some states. If you catch them by legal means, you can keep them. Local regulations vary- definitely look it up.

Also I like to add, I went on a call one day to a cat that went crazy and cut up (not scratched) this woman's arm so bad, lacerations on both arms from her hands to the shoulder. Both arms were red blood dripping to the ground. She managed to get the cat in a cage and it tried to attack me. I had to euthanize the cat and take it to the State Pathology lab to check for rabies.

That cat probably had something wrong with it. Pain and fear can make cats pretty violent. The appropriate response is to either fix the problem or (if the cat is too aggressive) euthanize it. Declawing is never appropriate- that'll just give you an aggressive cat that's in more pain and will bite instead of scratching. Cat bites are far worse than scratches, they're horribly filthy and very prone to getting infected.
Did it wind up having rabies, or anything else visibly wrong? If not, there's a disorder in dogs that makes them suddenly and randomly attack anything around them, then abruptly stop and show no signs that they knew what happened. They go from happy and playing to trying to kill things, then right back to happy. Theoretically there could be something similar with cats.

 

[James_O]

Sunfish and goldfish might get along, depending on space, cover, and sunfish species.

Most likely not. Sunfish will nip the gold fish to death, because it’s long fins resembles minnows.

 

[EricR]

Just saw the topic -- Shout out to my local PetSmart!
I just did one of those in a failing heater thread I had going a few days ago.

Here's an excerpt:

What brand heater?
Its entirely possible it got water inside it and shorting out but the fish should have been fine unless you run a ground probe and no GFCI.
Maybe just a coencidence or induced voltage driving him nuts!
Fish are very sensitive to those things.

Good call removing it.
I dont like to fully submerge heaters unless theyre simple titanium elements.

Heater was Top Fin, part of an aquarium starter kit from PetSmart -- $109 for 37 gallon glass tank, HOB power filter, 200W heater, plastic lid, LED lighting, and other non-essentials. (ON SALE! ...but I see they ALWAYS have those on sale).

PetSmart just DID RIGHT BY ME:
-- ready to swap out heater for new one, no questions asked (expected)
-- in-store value of new one was $38.99 but they agreed to give me store credit
-- happened to be having a HALF OFF SALE on Eheim Jager TrueTemp heaters -- could be another one of those always on sale things but, at any rate, they were only about $20 each
-- for $2.27 out of pocket, ended up with 2 x 100W Eheim Jager TrueTemp heaters

 

[anthonygf]

Well, yeah, starving fish will do a lot of weird things. Piranha don't attack large prey unless starved, but starving redtail piranha will take on things hundreds of times their size.

And yes, I should have clarified: I was throwing out ideas, not listing a bunch of things to all put together. Sunfish are predatory, not for keeping with small fish you don't want eaten. Sunfish and goldfish might get along, depending on space, cover, and sunfish species. Longears are only moderately aggressive most of the time, and during breeding season, they'll chase everything in the nest area but leave everything outside it alone. At least with the Texas ones. I watch them at the river sometimes, and they'll ignore anything that's not in or immediately next to the area they clean out for their nest. I also used to keep them in a freshwater tank, and my local garden center has a couple of them in the goldfish pond. Cool fish.

If you can get a warmouth sunfish, you could try one of those. They're sorta like a small freshwater grouper. Definitely don't put them with anything that isn't at least nearly as big as they are, they have large mouths, but they generally ignore things that aren't food.

Most game fish are illegal to catch and keep without permits, varying depending on state. However, sunfish aren't game fish in some states. If you catch them by legal means, you can keep them. Local regulations vary- definitely look it up.


That cat probably had something wrong with it. Pain and fear can make cats pretty violent. The appropriate response is to either fix the problem or (if the cat is too aggressive) euthanize it. Declawing is never appropriate- that'll just give you an aggressive cat that's in more pain and will bite instead of scratching. Cat bites are far worse than scratches, they're horribly filthy and very prone to getting infected.
Did it wind up having rabies, or anything else visibly wrong? If not, there's a disorder in dogs that makes them suddenly and randomly attack anything around them, then abruptly stop and show no signs that they knew what happened. They go from happy and playing to trying to kill things, then right back to happy. Theoretically there could be something similar with cats.

No rabies. Just a crazy cat, never seen anything like it. Mad at everyone. The dog had his shots and was very friendly to me. I also had to get vaccinated against rabies, a series of 3 shots spread over several weeks. The vaccine needed to be injected between a certain layer of skin so they had to fish the needle in sideways and feel for that layer of skin they need. After several days the area would bubble and itch like mad. Was not fun. lol
Speaking of injections, next month I will have injections for both of my knees. Not looking forward to that.

 

[Aboynamedsous2]

Sadly my local petsmart has Cyano in every tank.. they dont clean their tanks and they put no compatable fish together in tanks as i saw a a tank getting attacked by another tang right in front of me in a small 30 gallon holding tank...

the coral tank they have the AI hydra so far up its not even lighting the tank so every coral they get is pretty much dead in the first day. makes me wonder how much money petco would save in the long run if they properly took care of their corals/fish instead of losing more then half the livestock..

i did however save my scooter goby,green clown fish and my cardinal from petco both are doing well and been living past 5 months so far.

The one time I bought from them my animal died a week later. I learned a valuable lesson just to pay a little extra for something at the local stores because quality over quantity is better.

 

[Tired]

Poor cat probably either had something wrong with its brain, or was in serious pain and lashing out. Hope the lady was okay, and glad y'all didn't get rabies.

 

[Karen00]

Cold water slows a fish's metabolism and holds more oxygen, so when we're dealing with hibernating fish, they don't need much oxygen exchange.

It's a myth that working dogs suffer frequent tail injuries. Well- frequent, /severe/ tail injuries. Maybe frequent tiny scratches. Any veterinarian who deals with working dogs will tell you as much. Veterinary practices that deal with a lot of working dogs might see a couple of bad tail injuries a year, or less- certainly not enough to be worth cutting off every tail in case they get hurt at all. Besides, if there's a need for short-tailed dogs, we should just breed for short tails. People claim it's for the dog's benefit, but it's not- it started because people used to think it would somehow prevent rabies, and now it's an aesthetics thing.
Tail docking, aside from being cruel, runs the risk of developing nerve issues at the stub. It can also be linked to urinary issues, and removes a major part of a dog's ability to communicate expressions to other dogs.
Think of it this way: nobody's suggesting construction workers should cut off all their toes, so they can't break a toe in the future.

Declawing is even worse than you think. It involves removing the entire first bone of each toe, because the claw is attached to that. In cats, that's the bone that supports most of their weight. They wind up walking on the ends of the second bones. It causes chronic pain which may be severe, very frequently causes them to stop using the litterbox (because the litter hurts their feet now), and causes a host of behavioral issues due to the pain. It also makes them more likely to bite, since they have no ability to scratch now. And, again- chronic pain. If a cat is scratching people, the people need to stop scaring the cat. If a cat is scratching furniture, the people need to provide alternate scratching posts, trim the cat's claws with a stress-free method, and consider claw caps. If the claws are still a dealbreaker, trade the cat in for a dog.

Wow, hugely informative! Thanks for sharing this. Food for thought! I'm just glad most (maybe all) of Canada bans docking and declaring! Small blessings!