Show me your experiences with difficult fish to keep or expert only fish.

[Boreas_SA]

I've seen with a lot of the "difficult to keep fish" that most of them are already compromised when they arrive in your tank, whether that is because of spending a lot of time in holding tanks without food, or being exposed to chemicals when they are collected. and then there is almost no chance of getting them to live long. We are lucky here that we are allowed to collect our own fish from the ocean, and something like a moorish idol is quite common on the East Coast. They are quite easy if they go from the ocean to a tank within a few days, I think their death knell is the long time they spend in holding without proper food. My friend kept a local moorish idol for 5+ years, and I have kept them for 2 years+, they take pellets within the first week normally. A healthy moorish is nowhere near reef safe though, it rips lps apart.

As far as other hard to keep fish go, my current copperband I've had for 3 years, and it is still going strong. Also have a Stethojulis trilineata for about 4 months now, cautiously optimistic as it is still fat, they are also notoriously difficult, have failed with interrupta and bandanensis in the past where they just wasted away despite eating. This time I dewormed a few times initially once it started eating properly, maybe that also helps.

Had a multibar in the past from TMC, and it also refused to eat, I kept it in a 1000 liter flobin full of live rock for a good 3 months at the start until it acclimated to prepared foods. Unfortunately lost it when my one UV sterilizer burst in the middle of a cold night a few years ago.

 

[LaloJ]

I now have 5 ‘hard to keep’ species of fish in total. I have 8 difficult fish in total though. Across the board, their care is rather the same. And what makes them difficult is also pretty much the same;
Bad shippers,
Bad eaters,
Bad with internal parasites.

My Halichoeres iridis which is now 3 years old.

My Chelmon rostratum, which again is 3 years old.

My Macropharyngodon bipartitus which is one and a half years old currently.

Then I have a trio of Pseudocheilinops ataenia which are 6 months old. However I had one previous to them which was one year old.

And my newest one which is only a week old, my juvenile Pygoplites diacanthus.

Why exactly are the species of the genus Macropharyngodon considered expert only fish? Is their food itself? Their mouth shape just reminds me of Mandarins which are quite picky eaters and need a mature tank with microfauna, so this could be the case for this genus of wrasses.

 

[LaloJ]

I've seen with a lot of the "difficult to keep fish" that most of them are already compromised when they arrive in your tank, whether that is because of spending a lot of time in holding tanks without food, or being exposed to chemicals when they are collected. and then there is almost no chance of getting them to live long. We are lucky here that we are allowed to collect our own fish from the ocean, and something like a moorish idol is quite common on the East Coast. They are quite easy if they go from the ocean to a tank within a few days, I think their death knell is the long time they spend in holding without proper food. My friend kept a local moorish idol for 5+ years, and I have kept them for 2 years+, they take pellets within the first week normally. A healthy moorish is nowhere near reef safe though, it rips lps apart.

As far as other hard to keep fish go, my current copperband I've had for 3 years, and it is still going strong. Also have a Stethojulis trilineata for about 4 months now, cautiously optimistic as it is still fat, they are also notoriously difficult, have failed with interrupta and bandanensis in the past where they just wasted away despite eating. This time I dewormed a few times initially once it started eating properly, maybe that also helps.

Had a multibar in the past from TMC, and it also refused to eat, I kept it in a 1000 liter flobin full of live rock for a good 3 months at the start until it acclimated to prepared foods. Unfortunately lost it when my one UV sterilizer burst in the middle of a cold night a few years ago.

Sometimes the management that many fish have from their capture until they reach our tanks simply stinks, it adds a lot of stress that, as I mentioned in another thread, the fish does not need and is absolutely harmful to it, delicate fish are the most affected here . I was unlucky when I tried multibarred angel which he simply refused to eat for about 6 weeks until it was finally consumed, but it is one of my dream fish.

 

[i cant think]

Why exactly are the species of the genus Macropharyngodon considered expert only fish? Is their food itself? Their mouth shape just reminds me of Mandarins which are quite picky eaters and need a mature tank with microfauna, so this could be the case for this genus of wrasses.

It’s due to Internal Parasites, Feeding (these can be rather finicky fish) and also getting them past the shipping stages.

 

[LaloJ]

It’s due to Internal Parasites, Feeding (these can be rather finicky fish) and also getting them past the shipping stages.

Thank you, I have heard of expert only wrasses such as Anampses neoguinaicus, lennardi, femininus, practically all the species of Macropharyngodon and I did not have much knowledge since I'm not a type of wrasses. On another note, I'm wondering whether to acquire a butterflyfish like C.capistratus, some come to the lfs from time to time but they are coral butterflies, even so I think I would have a better opportunity to take care of them than any other aquarist.

 

[OrionN]

 

[Zionas]

The Blue Backed Angel (C. Colini) isn’t one of the more well-known angels, but it’s being captive bred by 3 places in the world: Bali Aquarich, Hikari, and Atoll Farm in Thailand (where I am now). Atoll Farm in the coming months will be the first in the world to breed the Brazilian Fireball (C. Aurantonotus) and they already do Flames. The guy’s also working on Multibars but his “serial production” so far are these three species of dwarf angels.

 

[LaloJ]

I have seen photos of your fish before in some threads, always very sharp and clear, your fish look very fat and healthy, especially wrasses and regal angelfish, congratulations. What do you feed them?

 

[LaloJ]

The Blue Backed Angel (C. Colini) isn’t one of the more well-known angels, but it’s being captive bred by 3 places in the world: Bali Aquarich, Hikari, and Atoll Farm in Thailand (where I am now). Atoll Farm in the coming months will be the first in the world to breed the Brazilian Fireball (C. Aurantonotus) and they already do Flames. The guy’s also working on Multibars but his “serial production” so far are these three species of dwarf angels.

That is very good news, Colin's angelfish is one of the most incredible fish you can get without a doubt, being subtropical fish, do you think that over time and because they are bred in captivity they can withstand temperatures higher than that of the specimens collected?

 

[Zionas]

I am not sure, but I will ask the owner (Ek) of Atoll Farm soon. Back on Reef Central, Copps and a few other members said they had no trouble getting their wild caught specimens to adapt to normal reef temperatures like 78-80, but I wouldn’t be surprised if no more than 75 works even better for them.

They are a deepwater species usually found below 40m (130 feet), and their closest relative is C. Narcosis (Narcosis Angel) which is a very deep living species at about the same depths as the Peppermint (more than 100m). According to an old picture posted by Copps back on RC, Colin’s Angel is its own complex along with C. Narcosis but I read another article saying they are genetically and behaviorally different from typical Centropyge and may be placed in their own genus in the future once Centropyge is reclassified.

I don’t know if the shyness and difficulty adapting still applies to the captive bred specimens, although in one old article Frank Baensch says his captive bred Colin’s Angels were much less shy than the wild ones.

 

[dennis romano]

Thank you, I have heard of expert only wrasses such as Anampses neoguinaicus, lennardi, femininus, practically all the species of Macropharyngodon and I did not have much knowledge since I'm not a type of wrasses. On another note, I'm wondering whether to acquire a butterflyfish like C.capistratus, some come to the lfs from time to time but they are coral butterflies, even so I think I would have a better opportunity to take care of them than any other aquarist.

I have tried C. capistratus several times over the years. The one that I had last year (about two inches) ate all kinds of fine food frozen in a clam shell. It was in a quarantine tank by itself. It could not compete when placed in a tank with other small fish (gobies).

 

[OrionN]

I have seen photos of your fish before in some threads, always very sharp and clear, your fish look very fat and healthy, especially wrasses and regal angelfish, congratulations. What do you feed them?

I feed a regiment of various food. Pellets Otohime pellets with automated feeder2 of them about 8 times a day. Mixture of multiple flakes with frozen mysis once a day, Nori clips, several. I also feed (live, immediately before opening) oyster on the 1/2 shell occasionally. Then I have rock in refugium full of algae and worms that I place on the tank once in a while for the fish to feed on.

 

[LaloJ]

I am not sure, but I will ask the owner (Ek) of Atoll Farm soon. Back on Reef Central, Copps and a few other members said they had no trouble getting their wild caught specimens to adapt to normal reef temperatures like 78-80, but I wouldn’t be surprised if no more than 75 works even better for them.

They are a deepwater species usually found below 40m (130 feet), and their closest relative is C. Narcosis (Narcosis Angel) which is a very deep living species at about the same depths as the Peppermint (more than 100m). According to an old picture posted by Copps back on RC, Colin’s Angel is its own complex along with C. Narcosis but I read another article saying they are genetically and behaviorally different from typical Centropyge and may be placed in their own genus in the future once Centropyge is reclassified.

I don’t know if the shyness and difficulty adapting still applies to the captive bred specimens, although in one old article Frank Baensch says his captive bred Colin’s Angels were much less shy than the wild ones.

Centropyge colini and C.narcosis are pretty much the same fish if you compare them in a photograph, but perhaps some professional studies would be more appropriate. I remember that a study was carried out in 2016 on Centroyge cocosensis, which was handled as a variant of C.flavissima but no, they were practically only similar. The fact that some angelfishes are bred in captivity, in this case talking about Colin's angelfish, I think they could be both easier to keep and better adaptable to normal temperatures for a reef tank IMO. By the way, do you have any news of Copps?

 

[LaloJ]

I feed a regiment of various food. Pellets Otohime pellets with automated feeder2 of them about 8 times a day. Mixture of multiple flakes with frozen mysis once a day, Nori clips, several. I also feed (live, immediately before opening) oyster on the 1/2 shell occasionally. Then I have rock in refugium full of algae and worms that I place on the tank once in a while for the fish to feed on.

I feed my fish with frozen mysis, and brine shimp, I can also get a seafood porridge at lfs that contains (among the ingredients I remember) clams, peas, squid and nori, although they haven't made it in a while, what kind of live worms are you feeding from your live rock?

 

[LaloJ]

I have tried C. capistratus several times over the years. The one that I had last year (about two inches) ate all kinds of fine food frozen in a clam shell. It was in a quarantine tank by itself. It could not compete when placed in a tank with other small fish (gobies).

I would love to try one more time with C.capistratus, but I have to have more food on hand to have a better chance, however if the fish refuses to feed my last option so that it will not be consumed little by little, then it would be to feed the fish with live corals, which would be expensive.

 

[ctopherl]

Why exactly are the species of the genus Macropharyngodon considered expert only fish? Is their food itself? Their mouth shape just reminds me of Mandarins which are quite picky eaters and need a mature tank with microfauna, so this could be the case for this genus of wrasses.

They are delicate and get stressed easily, especially when shipped. Being stress then in turn causes them to hide in the sand for potentially up to a couple weeks early on, making it hard to get them eating properly.

I just got one and it made it through shipping but was in the sand for a couple of days. When it finally came out it was for maybe 20min at a time at first, and I was throwing all kinds of food at it without it eating for a week+. Turns out it liked hikari frozen food but not the SF bay frozen food I initially had. Now it is coming out and staying out more regularly finally a few weeks later.

I think people also tend to dump them straight into copper upon receiving which does not help when they are already stressed from shipping.

 

[SCReef'n]

I’ve got a number of fish that are generally considered “difficult”. I agree with @Viking_Reefing when he talks about not really believing that label. Most of these fish have specific requirements and as long as they are met you’ll have as much success as any other fish.

 

[Joe's 220 Reef]

I have had a Copperbanded Butterfly fish now for like 6 years. He slowly started taking frozen but I gave clams in the beginning. Now it eats like a pig and I hand feed it pieces of table shrimp and loves frozen mysis. I also have evansi anthias that are finicky at first but start them on calensis or cyclops if they don’t eat rich away. Lastly I am trying my first Achilles tang that I had in an observation tank and is now under quarantine with copper as it had ich. So far it is eating well and should pull through the treatment.

 

[LaloJ]

They are delicate and get stressed easily, especially when shipped. Being stress then in turn causes them to hide in the sand for potentially up to a couple weeks early on, making it hard to get them eating properly.

I just got one and it made it through shipping but was in the sand for a couple of days. When it finally came out it was for maybe 20min at a time at first, and I was throwing all kinds of food at it without it eating for a week+. Turns out it liked hikari frozen food but not the SF bay frozen food I initially had. Now it is coming out and staying out more regularly finally a few weeks later.

I think people also tend to dump them straight into copper upon receiving which does not help when they are already stressed from shipping.

So it seems that the handling of these fish in the beginning has a lot to do, as well as with other difficult fish. I'm not a fan of putting fish directly on medication when newly acquired, if they go into a qt tank just provide enough shelter and feed the fish as best you can, not support them with stress.

 

[LaloJ]

I’ve got a number of fish that are generally considered “difficult”. I agree with @Viking_Reefing when he talks about not really believing that label. Most of these fish have specific requirements and as long as they are met you’ll have as much success as any other fish.

Very nice fishes, I love your semilarvatus butterfly.