Sick anthias

zibba · Dec 21, 2014

Hi, I'm looking for some help with an anthias that's in QT. The male lyretail is the only fish showing symptoms -- both ventral and the dorsal fin. It's in the QT tank with two female lyretails, a tang and a lawnmower blenny that are all behaving and looking healthy.

Would appreciate help with ID and treatment. Thanks!

Sick anthias 2 by ..:.. EZ ..:.., on Flickr

Sick anthias 1 by ..:.. EZ ..:.., on Flickr

SantaMonicaHelp · Dec 22, 2014

I'm sorry to hear about your lyretail. Hope he can do his best to feel better!

-Yating

Humblefish · Dec 22, 2014

This is very likely the beginnings of a bacterial disease. I would treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Furan-2 or Kanaplex. If possible, isolate this fish and treat separate from the other fish in QT - as not all fish handle antibiotics well (appetite suppression).

zibba · Dec 22, 2014

SantaMonicaHelp said:
I'm sorry to hear about your lyretail. Hope he can do his best to feel better!

-Yating

Thanks for rooting for us!

Humblefish said:
This is very likely the beginnings of a bacterial disease. I would treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Furan-2 or Kanaplex. If possible, isolate this fish and treat separate from the other fish in QT - as not all fish handle antibiotics well (appetite suppression).

Thanks for chiming in.

I have Furan-2 on hand but not Kanaplex (I need to add that to my medicine cabinet). I've never treated with Furan-2 and I'm a little confused about what directions to follow. The directions on the box say to use 1 packet (85mg of nitrofurazone/packet) per 10-gallons. My QT is 60-gallons so that's 510 mg of nitrofurazone.

I found other dosage/treatment protocols here:

Marine Fish Diseases and Parasites and http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquariummedication2.html; both of which recommend 250- 500 mg per 20 gallons. Or, in my case 750mg of nitrofurazone or almost 9 packets at the low end.

Finally, I came across this:
Cir 84/FA084: Use of Antibiotics in Ornamental Fish Aquaculture, which recommends

189-756 mg per 10 gallons for 1 hour,

repeat daily for 10 days

OR

378 mg per 10 gallons for 6-12 hours,

repeat daily for 10 days.

The UFL site recommends using furan as a dip, like you recommended. My thought was that the other fish could get infected so maybe I should treat the entire thing to be sure? I wanted to defer to you on these questions though.

Any help is appreciated.

**Edit: And, if as a dip, which directions should I follow? Seems that I could easily transfer the single anthias to a 5-gallon bucket with 3-gallons of water and used one packet (85mg) as a one-hour bath and be within the UFL recommendations and at the high end of the directions in the other two links.

Humblefish · Dec 23, 2014

To clarify: What I meant by treating & isolating is it would be better to setup another QT for the sick anthias and treat in there. So your other fish are not being exposed to antibiotics unnecessarily (although if the infection spreads, your other fish will require treatment). Exposing a fish with a bacterial infection to antibiotics for just one hour isn't going to do much good. Long-term exposure is usually required, so the fish's skin can absorb the medication. Alternatively, you can soak antibiotics in the fish's food and when they ingest it, it gets absorbed that way (Kanaplex works particularly well for this). But the problem is ensuring the fish is eating it (and in sufficient quantities). Dosing it directly into the water column forces them to "take their medicine" whether they want it or not. :xd:

I've always dosed as per the directions on the Furan-2 box (85mg) and have had pretty good results. I prefer to underdose nitrofurazone, as that particular antibiotic can have nasty side effects if overdosed. You can also safely combine Furan-2+Kanaplex+metronidazole for an even wider spectrum of treatment, and lately I've been finding that mixture to be extremely effective (kudos to someone on RC for telling me about it).

The main thing you want to do when treating with antibiotics (no matter which one) is provide plenty of gas exchange. Antibiotics are notorious for depleting the water of O2 and IMO, this why so many people claim to lose fish while treating.

zibba · Dec 23, 2014

Great information.

I don't have a separate QT to put this guy in so I'm going to treat the entire QT I guess. I understand the reasoning now and it make perfect sense to not expose the other fish to antibiotics unnecessarily. But i guess it's the learning curve of trying to QT more than one fish at a time.

I'll treat according to the directions on the box.

And, I've read hedgedrew's comments about the furan+kana+metro and one of the links I posted above mentions it.

I'm going to find some kana and focus to bind the metro to food tomorrow and I'll implement that combo if the furan doesn't work. I need more furan anyway.

Again, much appreciated. I'll post back.

Humblefish · Dec 23, 2014

zibba said:
And, I've read hedgedrew's comments about the furan+kana+metro and one of the links I posted above mentions it.

Yes, that is who told me (I am terrible with names). At first I was dubious. But after doing a little research, I saw there was no risk of negative interaction combining all 3 meds. I've since tried it myself on a few fish and have had fantastic results.

zibba · Jan 2, 2015

UPDATE

I did one round of Furan-2 but I ran out and couldn't find any stores that were open over the holidays that carried it locally. So I switched and started treating with Kanaplex. I dosed according to the directions on the package with water changes before each dose. I've done three treatments and the anthias' fin is the same. All of the other fish are looking great.

I've been feeding food soaked in Metroplex as well but the fish really don't like that food and typically spit it out. I don't think they got much metro.

I was thinking of doing a water change and then running a little carbon to remove any residual antibiotics and let the fish be for a week to see how the healthy fish react. If the healthy fish don't show any symptoms, I'm thinking of adding them to the display (that would be in about another 10-days or so) and treating the individual male more aggressively. I was thinking of going this route because I don't want to unnecessarily expose the otherwise healthy fish to antibiotics.

And, if there's another medicine I should try, please let me know. I have melafix and can get enough furan-2 to properly treat or I can go an entirely different route.

Thanks,
Z

Humblefish · Jan 2, 2015

The problem is trying to match the specific bacterium that is afflicting your fish to an antibiotic that will successfully target it. That is why the Furan/Kanaplex combo works so well - a broader spectrum. I've never had any luck with Melafix, but it might be worth a shot if standard antibiotic treatment is failing you. Another option would be erythromycin - as that targets gram positive bacteria pretty well. I am thinking your anthias has a gram positive infection, because a) it hasn't spread b) gram negative usually kills a fish pretty quickly.