Sick clowns?

[MsBean]

Feeling sad

10 days ago I added a tailspot blenny to my 13.5 Evo. 2 ocellaris clowns have been living there since October and doing file, along with assorted inverts and corals (mostly softies).

A week later he died. No outwardly obvious cause of death, after 6 days looking OK (if a little shy) he just lay down on the sound and gradually went belly up.

Now, 3 days later, my clowns are showing signs of being unwell. The smaller one in particular has some white patches on him (not dots exactly, and only visible at an angle) and has been swimming a bit erratically - even by clown standards.

What could this be and is there anything I can do to treat? Ich? Something else?

Really bummed as things had been going fairly well until that ill fated blenny came along.

I don't really have a hospital/QT tank given that my setup is just a nano, but if necessary I could use an old pico (3 gallon betta tank)

Water parameters all seem fine:
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 5-6
phos .03-.08 (depending on how recently I've fed reef roids)
pH 8.2
Alk 9-9.5
temp 25 C

 

[MsBean]

higher res photo

 

[Trouble1375]

I'm not fish disease expert and would look to one of them for better input but that looks like brook or velvet. I would get them into QT - even a tote with a heater, airstone and some sort of filter would work. You will need to treat quickly. I would assume Brook as velvet can kill within hours.

 

[MsBean]

Is there a catch-all treatment or set of treatments I can use without being exactly sure what the cause is?

 

[Trouble1375]

I use Maracyn2 but I'm not sure where you are located so it may not be an option for you

 

[MsBean]

Should have put this is the disease forum - is there a way to move the thread?

 

[threebuoys]

@vetteguy53081 can probably help

 

[Sharkbait19]

Mods can move the thread.
Any pics of the blenny before it died? Anything about appearance stand out?
Formalin can work for both velvet and brook (though copper is recommended for velvet). Just about everything should be done in a qt and away from the dt, as most meds can harm corals.
Tank should remain fishless for 6 weeks to starve the disease if one of those.

But I’d sooner say that looks like ich based on the sizes of the spots. Velvet and brook appear more like coats, with velvet being a bunch of little tiny spots. Ich is a much slower killer than velvet and brook. A sharknose goby of mine looked very similar to that clown and it had what was most likely ich (ironic), though by the time it died it was so bad it looked like brook.
Treating in a separate qt with copper is the go to treatment, and the dt would remain fishless for 90 days. Getting a 10 gallon qt is best, and I’d try to do that as soon as possible (especially for adding new fish). The biggest problem with a 3 gallon qt is going to be the clowns possibly getting aggressive each other due to cramped quarters (and 3 gallons is really not enough space for more than a very temporary solution).
Pics of all, at this point it’s pretty bad on all the pictured fish but gets the point across, not my photos.
Ich:

Velvet:

Brook:

 

[MsBean]

Thank you. The spots don't really like grainy like the traditional ich photos, it's quite subtle unless I see it from the right angle. Maybe it is just getting going. Here is another photo of the clown. Also the dying blenny No spots on him.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sure signs if brooklynella with a secondary bacterial infection
In cases like this, fish will be acting lethargic, darting at the surface, refusing to eat and look hazy with loss of color and rapid breathing
Consensus is to treat with formalin based medication such as quick cure or ruby rally pro
If none on hand, you can do a 5 minute freshwater dip to offer temporary relief
The longer you treat, the better the outcome.

 

[Lavey29]

You can treat both clowns together in one QT but your DT will need to go fallow for an extended period of time also to clear the brook disease.

 

[MsBean]

Well now there is a further complication, I am in Canada and it seems almost all the meds folks recommend are banned here. So my options are pretty limited.

The clown seems to be eating and swimming OK for the most part, so I'll observe closely and maybe try a freshwater dip.

 

[Lavey29]

Well now there is a further complication, I am in Canada and it seems almost all the meds folks recommend are banned here. So my options are pretty limited.

The clown seems to be eating and swimming OK for the most part, so I'll observe closely and maybe try a freshwater dip.

They call it clownfish disease because clowns seem to be the primary carrier of the bacteria. My clowns lasted several weeks after showing similar symptoms to yours and then one by one all the fish succumbed very quickly. Treatment is imperative for you early on.

 

[MsBean]

I did a freshwater dip because that was all I had access to. Ordered some Ruby Reef Rally in case I might need that, but it hasn't even arrived yet.

The good news is, 24 hours later they seemed to have bounced back. Maybe 1 or 2 tiny white spots on the little guy but so subtle I'm not even 100% sure. A week later they are eating and swimming fine, so maybe their immune systems suppressed whatever was wrong.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Fw dips and being in a sterile environment will alleviate symptoms, helps to buy time.

 

[MsBean]

You're right, they are looking a bit the worse for wear again. Luckily the Ruby Rally and Ich combo pack I ordered arrived this week, so I gave the clowns one more freshwater bath and am treating with both based on the instructions. I know, I know, I've read all the comments about "reef safe" ich treatments being useless, but since it's all I have access to up here in the Great White North, I figured it couldn't hurt to try. Plus, judging by the photos it could well be Brook rather than Ich or Velvet, in which case the Rally might actually work.

They are still eating and swimming OK, albeit a little erratically at times (though with clowns I find it hard to judge what counts as "unusual" swimming behaviour, since they habitually do weird things.)

Wish me luck, will keep my fingers crossed and post how things turn out.

 

[MsBean]

They survived the weekend and Rally treatment in good spirits, but covered in spots. I'm reasonably sure now that it's ich rather than brook or velvet.

I finally got my hands on some Copper Power so have now set up a proper 10 gallon hospital tank, in a secondhand 10g I got off marketplace for 20 bucks. The plan is to do the 30 day copper treatment then leave them there while the DT sits fallow for 6 weeks (temp raised to 27C).

My kids were super excited about the hospital tank setup, they even made a sign to cheer up their fish.

 

[MsBean]

Photo of the spots yesterday. The smaller guy had more.

 

[MsBean]

I took 5 days to gradually increase the copper to therapeutic level, and already the spots are almost gone. Fish are swimming and eating fine, so I’m optimistic things will turn out OK.

And now I have a hospital/QT tank and protocol for the future!

Opinions sought: should I treat with prazipro after the copper, just to be totally comprehensive? I don’t actually suspect flukes, but after all this trouble I want to get it right.

 

[Sharkbait19]

It wouldn’t hurt to do a round, but I’d see how the clown is doing after copper first.