Sick Emperor Angel Fish

MoeAly · Jul 1, 2020

Hi Everyone!

I hope you're all doing well. While I have several years experience in keeping and maintaining a fresh water aquarium, I'm fairly new to the marine scene.

My salt water tank is 3 months old and fully cycled. Currently it's FOWL. My water parameters are as follows Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate 5 PH:8.2 Temp:79 Tank size: 125Gallon

I have 2 clowns, 1 yellow tang, 1 hippo tang and 1 Emperor Angel. I've only had the Emperor for about 2 weeks now (one of which was was in QT). Long story short, the Emperor was showing signs of ICH and marine velvet so I treated the QT tank for both parasites (API Super ICK Cure and Ruby Reef Rally Pro). I also treated for a wide variety of other infections/bacteria/fungus (API Erythromycin). Emperor cleared up (with the exception of some white blotching which I was told is due to stress) and seemed to be doing well in QT, so I moved him to my main display. He's been in my main display for 3 days now and looks like he's getting sick again. Please see attached pictures. It looks like he's perhaps getting ICH/Velvet again? Or perhaps never healed from it? I see some spots on his tail. Can these also be from stress or is this ICH/Velvet? He's been hanging out in the bottom corner of my tank and not swimming around/socializing or acting "normal". Should I remove and place back in QT and continue treatment? Have I infected my main display with ICH or Velvet at this point (assuming the Emperor is sick again?). Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Uncle99 · Jul 1, 2020

Those white ovalish marks on the tail resemble the ick parasite.
I would treat with copper if your not sure Ick/velvet.
Nothing else works for Ick and Velvet.
If it’s just Ick, TTM, Hypo or Copper, is all that works.
If that fish was in your DT, it now has the parasite.
All fish removed for 76 days is all that works to my knowledge.
Of course copper can kill easily and must be used outside of the main display.

Conrad Noto · Jul 1, 2020

I second above, copper quick.

Timmtom49 · Jul 1, 2020

Once a fish has ich its in the tank for ever ? I ordered a uv setilizer read that this will kill ich

MoeAly · Jul 1, 2020

Uncle99 said:
Those white ovalish marks on the tail resemble the ick parasite.
I would treat with copper if your not sure Ick/velvet.
Nothing else works for Ick and Velvet.
If it’s just Ick, TTM, Hypo or Copper, is all that works.
If that fish was in your DT, it now has the parasite.
All fish removed for 76 days is all that works to my knowledge.
Of course copper can kill easily and must be used outside of the main display.

Thanks very much for your reply and advice. I will try the Copper.

MoeAly · Jul 1, 2020

Conrad Noto said:
I second above, copper quick.

Thank you! Will try copper.

Hugh Mann · Jul 1, 2020

A UV sterilizer will not remove ich from a tank. What it will do is reduce their numbers, which in conjunction with clean water and good diet can be used to MANAGE ich, not eradicate.

The only way to completely eradicate ich from your tank is unfortunately to use chemical warfare. Remove ALL fish from the display for a minimum of 76 days. There are rumors that ich can survive longer in anaerobic conditions, so eliminate any and all such spots and areas.

All fish must go into QT, same or separate tanks and treated with medication of your choice, copper being the harshest, but most effective. Complete treatment, remove meds and observe for any signs of reinfection. Once the display has been fallow for the 76 day minimum, fish may be returned to the display.

Or, if you don't have inverts and coral, and never ever plan to have them ever in your tank, you can treat copper in your display. With that comes major inconveniences and should only be done as a last ditch resort. Copper can and will be absorbed and leached almost randomly by the rock and sand, playing havoc with keeping your dosage accurate.

Or, if you don't have and can't get QT systems large enough to hold your fish, since you don't have corals, you can go through the effort to remove all your rock and sand, leaving just a bare glass tank, and can then treat copper in there. Rock and sand can be placed in just about any sturdy bin filled with saltwater, heater and a powerhead or two. Add ammonia every so often to maintain the bacteria. Leave it alone for 76 days then return to display.

This is the option I had to do when I got velvet, it works, but it's a serious pain in the behind.

MoeAly · Jul 1, 2020

Hugh Mann said:
A UV sterilizer will not remove ich from a tank. What it will do is reduce their numbers, which in conjunction with clean water and good diet can be used to MANAGE ich, not eradicate.

The only way to completely eradicate ich from your tank is unfortunately to use chemical warfare. Remove ALL fish from the display for a minimum of 76 days. There are rumors that ich can survive longer in anaerobic conditions, so eliminate any and all such spots and areas.

All fish must go into QT, same or separate tanks and treated with medication of your choice, copper being the harshest, but most effective. Complete treatment, remove meds and observe for any signs of reinfection. Once the display has been fallow for the 76 day minimum, fish may be returned to the display.

Or, if you don't have inverts and coral, and never ever plan to have them ever in your tank, you can treat copper in your display. With that comes major inconveniences and should only be done as a last ditch resort. Copper can and will be absorbed and leached almost randomly by the rock and sand, playing havoc with keeping your dosage accurate.

Or, if you don't have and can't get QT systems large enough to hold your fish, since you don't have corals, you can go through the effort to remove all your rock and sand, leaving just a bare glass tank, and can then treat copper in there. Rock and sand can be placed in just about any sturdy bin filled with saltwater, heater and a powerhead or two. Add ammonia every so often to maintain the bacteria. Leave it alone for 76 days then return to display.

This is the option I had to do when I got velvet, it works, but it's a serious pain in the behind.

Thank you very much for this information! So essentially if I choose to "control" instead of completely eradicate, I can use non-copper based ich medication such as API Super Ick Cure in combination with clean water/good diet and this should suffice?

Hugh Mann · Jul 1, 2020

Can't say much about the use of non copper based medication to aid in management, however I highly recommend giving this a read.

Ich eradication vs. Ich management

Ich eradication vs. Ich management The purpose of this article is to discuss the pros & cons of ich eradication and ich management, and present the best methods for implementing each. Ich eradication - Simply put, this method means doing everything possible to keep ich out of your tank. That...

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