Sick Royal Gramma

[Sean Norman]

So I got a Royal Gramma and added it to my QT. It has been in there for a week with no issues- eating, swimming.
I noticed it was lying on the bottom last night, this am I noticed it not moving, I moved it out to a small acclimation box. I saw what appeared to be abrasions on its side, It is currently not doing well- and most likely will not make it.
I am running Copper in the QT, and checked parameters this am- Salt 1.020, temp 77.6, PH 8.0, Ammonia 0.25( been changing water every other day). Nitrates 0.

It shares the tank currently with Clownfish who has no symptoms and is doing fine.

I did a freshwater dip on the Clown just now in RODI water with an air stone for one minute- no negative results.
In the photo you can see the abrasion/lesion near its tail.


Attached is a photo of the Gramma- Any ideas???

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

So I got a Royal Gramma and added it to my QT. It has been in there for a week with no issues- eating, swimming.
I noticed it was lying on the bottom last night, this am I noticed it not moving, I moved it out to a small acclimation box. I saw what appeared to be abrasions on its side, It is currently not doing well- and most likely will not make it.
I am running Copper in the QT, and checked parameters this am- Salt 1.020, temp 77.6, PH 8.0, Ammonia 0.25( been changing water every other day). Nitrates 0.

It shares the tank currently with Clownfish who has no symptoms and is doing fine.

I did a freshwater dip on the Clown just now in RODI water with an air stone for one minute- no negative results.
In the photo you can see the abrasion/lesion near its tail.


Attached is a photo of the Gramma- Any ideas???

A FW needs to be 5 minutes or just under (4:45) because flukes, etc won’t start dropping off usually until 3 1/2 to the 4 min mark.

 

[Sean Norman]

Copy- would flukes appear on the lower portion of the fish?

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Copy- would flukes appear on the lower portion of the fish?

They can be anywhere on the skin, face, gills, etc. if you FW dip in a dark container afterwards if there are flukes they will resemble opaque sesame seeds looking things.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Can you get a pic of the “abrasions” on the royal gramma?

 

[Sean Norman]

Here is a picture.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

That looks like bacterial infection and he will need the trifecta (metro, Kanaplex, Furan 2) it would be best if he is out of copper as it suppresses his immune system. A 90 min bath in an antiseptic like Ruby Reef Rally would help also. Maybe we can. Get a 2nd opinion

@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Big G @ngoodermuth

 

[HotRocks]

That looks like bacterial infection and he will need the trifecta (metro, Kanaplex, Furan 2) it would be best if he is out of copper as it suppresses his immune system. A 90 min bath in an antiseptic like Ruby Reef Rally would help also. Maybe we can. Get a 2nd opinion

@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Big G @ngoodermuth

I agree that it is a bacterial infection. Uronema is the only other possibility which is the less likely of the 2.

Either way the above recommended treatment is the best course of action as it covers both and if there is any chance of saving this fish it needs to happen ASAP.

 

[Big G]

That looks like bacterial infection and he will need the trifecta (metro, Kanaplex, Furan 2) it would be best if he is out of copper as it suppresses his immune system. A 90 min bath in an antiseptic like Ruby Reef Rally would help also. Maybe we can. Get a 2nd opinion

@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Big G @ngoodermuth

This ^^^ exactly. That's a nasty bacterial infection and they seem to go sideways on RG really quickly. NFG seems to work quickly, but it's harder to get a hold of, so the Trifecta is probably your best bet. Good luck. Beautiful fish.

 

[4FordFamily]

That looks like bacterial infection and he will need the trifecta (metro, Kanaplex, Furan 2) it would be best if he is out of copper as it suppresses his immune system. A 90 min bath in an antiseptic like Ruby Reef Rally would help also. Maybe we can. Get a 2nd opinion

@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Big G @ngoodermuth

I agree that it is a bacterial infection. Uronema is the only other possibility which is the less likely of the 2.

Either way the above recommended treatment is the best course of action as it covers both and if there is any chance of saving this fish it needs to happen ASAP.

This ^^^ exactly. That's a nasty bacterial infection and they seem to go sideways on RG really quickly. NFG seems to work quickly, but it's harder to get a hold of, so the Trifecta is probably your best bet. Good luck. Beautiful fish.

Agree on all fronts

 

[Sean Norman]

He did not make it..
This is the second time this happened in the QT- last time to a clown. I am not sure what I am doing wrong- checking my Copper level- dosing twice and following the directions- running a little hypo- 1.020- changing water every other day, air stone, removed the carbon- just a filter floss. Adding bacteria, PH is at 8.0.
Beginning to think my QT is cursed....

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Saltyreef]

What form of copper and what are you testing with?

 

[dwest]

What form of copper and what are you testing with?

If you are not using copper power with a Hannah checker, do it. You won’t regret it. It’s a game changer for sure. And use hotrocks procedure.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

He did not make it..
This is the second time this happened in the QT- last time to a clown. I am not sure what I am doing wrong- checking my Copper level- dosing twice and following the directions- running a little hypo- 1.020- changing water every other day, air stone, removed the carbon- just a filter floss. Adding bacteria, PH is at 8.0.
Beginning to think my QT is cursed....

Thanks for all the replies.

Unfortunately bacterial infections go sideways real quick, you pretty much have to start full strength treatments as soon as a single symptom pops up. What copper are you using and what level are you treating at?

 

[Big G]

He did not make it..
This is the second time this happened in the QT- last time to a clown. I am not sure what I am doing wrong- checking my Copper level- dosing twice and following the directions- running a little hypo- 1.020- changing water every other day, air stone, removed the carbon- just a filter floss. Adding bacteria, PH is at 8.0.
Beginning to think my QT is cursed....

Thanks for all the replies.

Sorry to hear that Sean. I had lots of trouble too with QT until I started letting the QT completely cycle with Seachem Stability for 30+ days. HOB with ceramic media and the foam pad soaked in my DT sump for at least a month; foam bubble filter with the foam pad soaked in the sump for at least a month. Since using this I rarely even have to do a water change during 30 days of copper and another couple of weeks of general cure. Oh, and a powerhead aimed up at the surface actively rippling the water. And then the most important part @jsker turned me on to his fish feeding system. I call it a "smoothie" where I take several different types of frozen fish cubes: mysis, cyclops, chopped clams, reef mix, brine, etc. the more the better. Take one of each and place into a tupperware place into the fridge. Let it slump. Pour off the excess liquid. Add Zoecon/Selcon mix. The smoothie will stay fresh in the fridge for a few days. The fish love it, and most importantly, it give them a very wide spectrum of vitamins, fats, proteins, and fiber. Haven't lost a fish for a long time in QT since doing this. Of course your mileage can very. Best of luck.

 

[Sean Norman]

I am using Cupramine and the Seachem test kit. I appreciate all the advice. My QT has been up for 5 weeks now, and I stay on top of water changes. We don't feed a lot, and I check my water chemistry every water change.
I guess one thought is the QT is working and I am catching sick fish- it is just hard to lose so many( 2 Grammas and a Clown).
I add bacteria with each water change. I am increasing the selenity what the heck this water change- trying to bring it up incase this is contributing to the issue.
We had our first two clowns get sick, with what I think was Brooklynella, one survived and is doing really well in my DT after 4 weeks in the QT.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I’d actually go the opposite way and say to break down and thoroughly clean/sterilize your QT before you try again.

 

[Big G]

I am increasing the selenity what the heck this water change- trying to bring it up incase this is contributing to the issue.

Usually leave the salinity at the level the fish came in at, 1.018 for example (from Live Aquaria), until the copper treatment is done and then slowly raise it during General Cure.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Hang in there! Your doing the right things. I’d too tear down the QT and sterilize. Should be quick and easy to do . I didn’t have much luck with my 1st QT. Tore it down and started again. It’s a tank now ready to QT any fish. And have successfully cured 2 fish so far.

 

[Sean Norman]

I have had two success stories.. my Stary Blennie made it through and is doing great in my DT. A lot of personality in that little fish- Nemo( I know my kids demanded that name) is thriving as well.
I will break it down and sterilize it and start over.