Silica in RO/DI or plastic?

[Chrisss]

Just was wondering if anyone actually knows where my silicates are coming from. 3.5 year old tank and I've had a problem with Chrysophytes for about 2 years now. It would go away come back go away. So it didn't bother me too much because It didn't effect corals. But now since I'm try to get rid of them I was trying to figure out the source of my problem.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.php
Here is an interesting article-
"It turns out that silicate is found at the lower end of affinity for anion resins. Consequently, if the DI resin has been collecting silicate for a long period and is then depleted, a large burst of silicate may be released."

Which I think is the main reason it keeps coming back and eventually going away. I have the BRS 4 stage Ro/di and I usually wait till it reads 1TDS before changing the filters. However, this is usually a month after the DI resin turns completely brown. Which I think is the main reason I'm having this Chrysophytes outbreak returning. However, I also store my Ro/Di water in plastic containers. One 50g Garbage can (not Brute) and a plastic ATO container for the top off water(That I bought from lowes).

But this post - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2050921
"I *am* a chemist, and standard plastics like the ones we add to our tanks (polyethylene, polypropylene, acrylics, polystyrenes, and polycarbonates) do not contain silicates as far as I know. Municipal water, some sands, quartz, biological silicate (e.g., from skeletons of certain creatures including diatoms) and silica gel are more likely sources.
-David "

Made me think that the plastic I'm using is not leaking Silicia which than led me to the RO/DI filters. So I was planning on upgrading my RO/Di to add another resin and maybe a cholarmines filter since my town is now using Chloramines as disinfection.

If anyone has any input where this Silicia is entering my tank from that could be great. Or any Opinions!



P.s Its not cynao or dynos.

 

[Chrisss]

hmm bump?

 

[AZDesertRat]

What is the source of your water?
Spectrapure has a DI cartridge blended specifically for silicates called the SilicaBuster which works quite well. I have used them for over 13 years now in a dual DI system with their MaxCap DI in the first spot and SilicaBuster in the second. The final water quality and the DI life cannot be beat.
I wouldn't waste money on so called chloramines carbons since it is the DI that removes the ammonia portion of chloramines, any quality 1 micron or smaller carbon block is more than capable of removing the chlorine portion and breaking the bond with the ammonia. Spend the money on better DI and possibly a better RO membrane to make that DI last even longer and work better.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How did you identify that you have silica-containing Chrysophytes?

You have a lot of them?

 

[Chrisss]

What is the source of your water?
Spectrapure has a DI cartridge blended specifically for silicates called the SilicaBuster which works quite well. I have used them for over 13 years now in a dual DI system with their MaxCap DI in the first spot and SilicaBuster in the second. The final water quality and the DI life cannot be beat.
I wouldn't waste money on so called chloramines carbons since it is the DI that removes the ammonia portion of chloramines, any quality 1 micron or smaller carbon block is more than capable of removing the chlorine portion and breaking the bond with the ammonia. Spend the money on better DI and possibly a better RO membrane to make that DI last even longer and work better.

I use tap water.
I did see the SilicaBuster but havn't seen any reviews on it to make me buy it. I was planning on ordering from BRS which is the only reason I havn't yet. Since they don't have a DI for Silicia. I did chat one of them and they said there DI resin should be fine with removing Silicia. Was also thinking about getting a new membrane.

I was planning on getting the Dual DI resin pack and I woulda had a wasted chamber so I was gonna run chloramines or something. Should I just a single stage and get DI resin or should I get the SilicaBuster and a better membrane?

 

[Chrisss]

How did you identify that you have silica-containing Chrysophytes?

You have a lot of them?

Yeah its crazy amounts of it >.> never knew what it was called until yesterday so I finnaly did some reasearch on studies and it exactly what they are dscribing when you have ton of it.

 

[AZDesertRat]

By source of your water, I mean is it surface water, well water, a lake or stream or? Where are you located and are you supplied by a municipal utility that publishes their water quality report on the internet as well as any treatment method or source water data?
I can tell you BRS has nothing that compares to the SilicaBuster or MaxCap resins. Spectrapure spent decades researching and developing them. There really is a difference.

 

[Chrisss]

By source of your water, I mean is it surface water, well water, a lake or stream or? Where are you located and are you supplied by a municipal utility that publishes their water quality report on the internet as well as any treatment method or source water data?
I can tell you BRS has nothing that compares to the SilicaBuster or MaxCap resins. Spectrapure spent decades researching and developing them. There really is a difference.

It comes from Rivers / wells. We are supplied by American Water.

http://www.amwater.com/twq/raritanhunterdonmercersomerset_twq.pdf
http://www.amwater.com/ccr/raritan.pdf
Couldn't really find any huge information on it. hopefully that is helpful.

Hmm I guess ill look into SilicaBuster tomorrow, should I try to replace my membrane also or this new DI resin should be sufficient? Also does it last as long typical resin or need more replacements.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Measure your rejection rate on your existing RO membrane before buying anything, it may be fine.
I always recommend a reefer know exactly what his RO/DI system is doing so he knows when it needs attention. If you don't have baseline data for things like rejection rate, waste ratio, water temperature, water pressure, water hardness, pH, tap TDS, RO only TDS and final RO/DI TDS you should do so now. Without all of those you really can't troubleshoot the system or know what does and doesn't need attention.

The SilicaBuster should last much longer than normal resin. If you do the MaxCap/SilicaBuster dual DI it should last a minimum of 3 times longer. When I switched from nuclear grade resin to that combination my DI life went from 150 measured gallons to 830 measured gallons on the first MaxCap replacement and over 3000 gallons on the first SilicaBuster replacement.

That's funny, I used to be a Supervisor for American Water back on the mid 1980's before switching to municipal utilities for the next 25 years and now as a consultant for a water environmental engineering firm for the last 10 years.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

GFO will reduce silicate in the tank water, so that may also be a good approach to starving the chrysophytes if you cannot easily cut off the source of silicate from your water (if, for example, it is coming in some other way, such as additives, minerals in the tank dissolving, foods, etc.).

Do you also see diatoms?

 

[Chrisss]

Measure your rejection rate on your existing RO membrane before buying anything, it may be fine.
I always recommend a reefer know exactly what his RO/DI system is doing so he knows when it needs attention. If you don't have baseline data for things like rejection rate, waste ratio, water temperature, water pressure, water hardness, pH, tap TDS, RO only TDS and final RO/DI TDS you should do so now. Without all of those you really can't troubleshoot the system or know what does and doesn't need attention.

The SilicaBuster should last much longer than normal resin. If you do the MaxCap/SilicaBuster dual DI it should last a minimum of 3 times longer. When I switched from nuclear grade resin to that combination my DI life went from 150 measured gallons to 830 measured gallons on the first MaxCap replacement and over 3000 gallons on the first SilicaBuster replacement.

That's funny, I used to be a Supervisor for American Water back on the mid 1980's before switching to municipal utilities for the next 25 years and now as a consultant for a water environmental engineering firm for the last 10 years.

Well I did a test and its really close to 1 gallon per 4 gallon of waste water. So I'm guessing the membrane is fine. It might be a little less but hard to tell. The water temperature is very very cold. Around 30F might get warmer as it runs longer though. Pressure is around 40 to 50 PSI matters how blocked to filters get. Hardness I don't know. PH is around 8(but thats always what my test kit reads lol). TAP tds is varrying from 160 -190 depending when I look at it. RO/DI TDS always 0 until I read 1 and change filters.

My DI runs out pretty quickly compared to other users. I only get around 160 out of my DI resin and that's pushing it. So your saying use the MaxCap DI to replace my BRS resin and add the SilicaBuster? Or add a dual Chamber with both MaxCap DI and Silica Buster as a like safe DI to remove all the left off stuff that the BRS resin doesn't remove.

Hahah nice a small world we live in. Thanks for the input also!

 

[Chrisss]

GFO will reduce silicate in the tank water, so that may also be a good approach to starving the chrysophytes if you cannot easily cut off the source of silicate from your water (if, for example, it is coming in some other way, such as additives, minerals in the tank dissolving, foods, etc.).

Do you also see diatoms?

Yeah I see diatoms patchs but usually just stir the sandbed every water change and they wont show up. They only show up in spots I don't mix but go away fairly quickly if I don't touch them also. I usually run GFO but long story short I leaned away for it for a couple of months to see how colors on SPS would react to higher Nutrient levels and it seems a lot better. So I not running GFO for a while unless I see a huge algae outbreak again, because my SPS usually burn at the base when I add it and they are finally recovering from the last GFO.

I really think its my water source, unless it getting leaked into my tank through plastics or some sort like you suggested. I either feed PE mysis which I rinse, or Pellets so I doubt they are coming in from there. I also throw a block of Cylop-eeeze in there every other day so I guess I can look up if there anything in there. I also feed BRS Chilli and coral frenzy on random days usually once of twice a week. I dose reef Energy A and B also everyday. So that's pretty much everything I'm adding besides water changes.

The Outbreak seems to be what the article said, how there was a huge release of Silicates after my Resin died out, but that could just be a coincidence.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

OK, that makes sense.

I'd either get a special silicate DI, or add a second DI in series with the first. With two, you can use most of the capacity of the first in line with almost no chance of anything significant getting through.

And GFO will help for whatever is already in the water.

 

[AZDesertRat]

What is your RO only TDS before the DI? This along with the tap TDS taken at the same time are used to determine your RO membranes rejection rate or removal efficiency.

As Randy mentioned, GFO will take care or any silicates already in the tank. You can use too much GFO though which results in the bleaching you mentioned. Never use more than 10 grams per 10 gallons and start out with half that amount or less and work up slowly over time. More is not better in this case.

 

[Chrisss]

OK, that makes sense.

I'd either get a special silicate DI, or add a second DI in series with the first. With two, you can use most of the capacity of the first in line with almost no chance of anything significant getting through.

And GFO will help for whatever is already in the water.

Yeah I might get a Dual cartage to run after my regular DI resin. If it last longer than I definetly will do that.

The only reason i don't use GFO now is because its TOO good. I had used 1/4 the recommended dosage and it still burned the bottoms of these acros I had. It's crazy stuff very powerful

 

[Chrisss]

What is your RO only TDS before the DI? This along with the tap TDS taken at the same time are used to determine your RO membranes rejection rate or removal efficiency.

As Randy mentioned, GFO will take care or any silicates already in the tank. You can use too much GFO though which results in the bleaching you mentioned. Never use more than 10 grams per 10 gallons and start out with half that amount or less and work up slowly over time. More is not better in this case.

I'm at work right now so I'll test it when I get home to see it. Didn't know that's how you test for it. I'll post the readings in a little bit

And about the GFO its was too good. The stuff is awesome but my SPS hate it!

 

[Chrisss]

I'm getting around 4-6 from the RO before DI. Might be a little higher was getting a reading of 10 at first then eventually went down to 5ish. @AZDesertRat

 

[puffy127]

Have you measured silicates in your RODI?

 

[Chrisss]

Have you measured silicates in your RODI?

I don't have a silicate test kit because the only brand I would get is salifert and its blue,blue,sometimes blue or really blue for a reading. And I'm never good at reading the colors. I mean there are Hanna checkers. But I also rather spend the 60 bucks and upgrade my RODI for that much.