simpler water changes on large systems?

[blacktippr]

Has anyone tried a bulkhead on a sump as an overflow for water changes so I can pump water in the system and the old water would just overflow through that higher level on the sump to dump old water out?

Any pros or cons?

 

[mcarroll]

Can you sketch up what you have in mind into a pic you can post?

I don't think you could just have an open hole in your sump right at water level that only worked when you wanted it to...but I doubt that's what you are thinking.

 

[MaccaPopEye]

Can you sketch up what you have in mind into a pic you can post?

I don't think you could just have an open hole in your sump right at water level that only worked when you wanted it to...but I doubt that's what you are thinking.

Actually I think that is exactly what he's saying. I think it sounds like a nifty idea. You would have to have a ball or gate valve on the sump drain though in case something happens and your sump water level raises it wont just start dumping water.

When you want to do a water change open the sump overflow valve (which could go straight to a drain) and pump fresh salt water into the DT. The level in the sump would rise and start dumping water out of the overflow, then close the sump valve when you have pumped all the new water in and the level has stabilized.

Only downside I can think of right now is that a conventional water change removes only old water and then you add in nice new water. This method has the potential to possibly remove a mix of new and old water that flow down to the sump as you are still pumping new water in, however I don't know if that is as bad as it sounds in my head. It might not even matter at all.

 

[blacktippr]

That's one of my concerns if the water change would not be as effective by doing this.

 

[Jlobes]

sounds great in theory, but like others have said...id be concerned about pulling out fresh/clean water while doing the WC. the goal is to remove water/waste/nutrients while doing a WC and this may not be the most effective solution.

 

[blacktippr]

I change 150 gallons at a time. And it's kind of time consuming to pull water out and then dump it in , too slow of a process.

 

[Jlobes]

I change 150 gallons at a time. And it's kind of time consuming to pull water out and then dump it in , too slow of a process.

whats your current WC procedure?

use bigger pump and larger diameter tubing. or look into an auto water change system.

you know what they say, nothing good happens fast in reefkeeping.

 

[chris31759]

I have even an easier method versus drilling a hole in the sump. I built two inverted u shaped pvc fill and drain pieces. One hangs over the tank to fill and one over the sump to drain. The fill fixtures goes down to almost the bottom of the tank. the drain fixture has a 90 " elbow at the normal water level of the sump. Both pieces have a ball valve to regulate flow. On the fill side just use a barb or threaded fitting to connect to the pump. On the drain side I found a garden hose threaded brass fitting to connect to pvc NPT fitting at the hardware store. I connect the drain to Python hose and sink to help speed up the drainage.

Just have the fresh saltwater a degree or two colder than the tank. This will cause the new water to settle towards the bottom of the tank. Now you are replacing mostly old water. I was going to drill my sump but didn't want to go through the aggrevation of draining. I have marked the sump water level with a marker for extra insurance. If you are not going to use the Pyton to draw out water, you want to use larger pvc pipe for the drain fixture than the fill fixture. I will try to post a couple of pictures. I was going to tear apart the wall and hard plumb everything but after this I am very happy.

Good Luck

 

[blacktippr]

I already own a DOS from Neptune , have a 150 gallon mixing reservoir, but have not figured out a way to hook the NSW line to that big reservoir, probably have to drill it and install some sort of small fitting that will hold the dosing pump line to it.

This is the reservoir I own., and hope that the line does not clog from salt creep or any other buildup in the tank.

I have a pump that's constantly turning water inside.

 

[cb684]

I believe it would work if you added a somewhat large volume during small periods of time. The problem is that, if you are doing that throughout the day, it will mess up with your ATO. I use peristaltic pumps to pump in and out the same amount of water continuously, so it will not interfere with the ATO.

The math on continuous water change shows that its effectivity and is very similar when compared to the "once a week" water change. It will not work well if you need to change a large percentage of tank water at once.

Here is a calculator that will help to visualize what I am saying: https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php

CB

 

[domination2580]

Unless you were to drain the water, then add the new that way

 

[MaccaPopEye]

An easier way of doing it could be to have a bulkhead at the base of your sump, or even in the tank somewhere, low enough to drain more than what you usually do a WC with. Have a valve on it then a dump hose. Open the valve, drain water down to a predetermined line (how much water you know you want to put in), close valve and add new water.

 

[cb684]

Unless you were to drain the water, then add the new that way

Sure. That would work. I thought the idea was so that was automatic and not manual. But if that is not the goal, I do not see a problem in doing that way.

 

[blacktippr]

I change 150 gallons at a time.

Sure. That would work. I thought the idea was so that was automatic and not manual. But if that is not the goal, I do not see a problem in doing that way.

Wouldn't changing 5 -7 gallons a day
With the DOS have the same issue of organics dilution.

 

[James605]

I have almost exactly what your talking about. I have a bulkhead drilled into the side all the way at the bottom of my sump. On the outside there is a simple ball valve to start stop flow. On the inside of the sump I have a 90 and a short piece of pvc measured out to where 40g mark is.
To do a water change I simply turn the system off, turn that valve on th sump which will drain the sump 40g into my floor drain. Then turn on a pump to pump back in 40g of new water to my sump. I do this every Friday and it takes me about 5 minutes and super clean and simple.i have less than $200 in my setup and I'm mad I didn't do this years ago. Hard water changes are a thing of the past.

 

[TD13]

I have set up systems doing just this. Bulkhead to a drain pipe in the skimmer portion of the sump and a pipe from the mix barrel to the pump side of the sump. Drain the system of the amount of water that you have made up. When it's close fill the pump side, it goes straight to the tank. MAYBE you end up dumping a small amount of the new water, but this has worked with a lot of large systems.

 

[keithp]

Overflows to sewer are not great because your sump will fluctuate for feeding or power out and you will find yourself with a dry pump. Your autotopoff also relies on water level. It is better to use the DOS or similar to pump to sewer while pumping fresh into the tank.

If you have space, you could use a faster pump to a container with a level sensor to measure the amount transferred and do something similar for the fill. Just have the controller turn off the ATO during the water change if not using an accurate dosing pump.

 

[LoneStarReef]

James, I know this is an old thread but do you mind posting or sending me some pics of the drain in your sump? I am thinking about doing the same thing. Love your setup.

I have almost exactly what your talking about. I have a bulkhead drilled into the side all the way at the bottom of my sump. On the outside there is a simple ball valve to start stop flow. On the inside of the sump I have a 90 and a short piece of pvc measured out to where 40g mark is.
To do a water change I simply turn the system off, turn that valve on th sump which will drain the sump 40g into my floor drain. Then turn on a pump to pump back in 40g of new water to my sump. I do this every Friday and it takes me about 5 minutes and super clean and simple.i have less than $200 in my setup and I'm mad I didn't do this years ago. Hard water changes are a thing of the past.

 

[jkapit]

I had a setup like the one the op described years ago. I installed a bulkhead at the bottom of my sump and ball valve and ran the pipe to a drain in my basement. I'd open the ball valve, drain the sump and then pumps up NSW.

It worked well, one drawback is that you are limited to the amount of water in the sump compartment where the bulkhead is installed.

I now use a constant water change method by using a DOS pump and like this approach.