Skimmer & Filter? Are Both Needed

Faccia di Pesce · Oct 15, 2020

I am putting together my first reef tank, 40 Gallon Breeder. I plan on having soft coral and maybe 6 -8 Fish and CUC.

Do I need both a filter and a Skimmer?

I was looking at this?

Comline® Reefpack 250 - Tunze

Hi-Tech für Aquaristik

www.tunze.com

Any suggestions or thoughts?

Thanks

lapin · Oct 15, 2020

That seems like a good choice for your 40 breeder

ShepherdReefer · Oct 15, 2020

I would too.

Cooldude7877 · Oct 15, 2020

There are multiple discussions about whether or not you should have both a skimmer and a filter going. I can tell you in my opinion it is vital to have both going full time. The amount of stuff that gets pulled out of my water after the water goes through the filter socks is amazing. Are both of these items full proof, no, but they definitely work very well together.

PatW · Oct 15, 2020

I run filter socks and a skimmer. The filter socks do a pretty good job at removing particulates which makes the water less of a mess. The skimmer removes macro molecules and that helps with nutrient export. On a small tank, you can get by without. But oceans are extremely stable environments. Filtration and skimming help that.

AcanthurusRex · Oct 15, 2020

Skimmer is probably good. If you don't want 2 things in the tank a SeaChem Tidal might be an alternative.
An ATO is probably next on you list of considerations.

Faccia di Pesce · Oct 15, 2020

AcanthurusRex said:
Skimmer is probably good. If you don't want 2 things in the tank a SeaChem Tidal might be an alternative.
An ATO is probably next on you list of considerations.

Why would Seachem Tidal make the skimmer necessary? Thanks

TriggersAmuck · Oct 15, 2020

The more disciplined you can be with mechanical removal (which a skimmer does as well as conventional floss in a filter) the lower the rate of nutrient injection into the system (and thus lower rates of Nitrate creation). I have the Tunze 9004 on my 14 gallon cube, and it is very easy to clean and maintain and does a reasonable job. There are definitely in-sump skimmers which are more efficient, but for a smallish tank the ease with which you can clean this one is a definite plus. Some great husbandry advice I was given years ago is that you clean socks (or other floss material if possible) and skimmer daily. The rational is that the more physical matter you can pull from contact with the water column, the less breakdown into nitrate (slower rate of production). Even though some will argue that the skimmer pulls the skimmate out of the water column, you quickly can observe that there is a LOT of gunk collected in the neck of the cup which remains in contact with the water and is also thus a good candidate for frequent cleaning/removal.

As to the Comline filter, you will have to decide if that is easy enough for you to clean frequently and store the media you want to deliver. The fact that it promotes a bit of surface filtering is definitely a plus, but the skimmer does this as well. (Aim to have the water level at least half way up the slits on the skimmer or higher). I switched the Comline filter for the skimmer in my 14 gallon cube, but that was more due to space than anything. In its place I put an Aquaclear 70 back filter, and yes, I change the sponge on the inlet as close to daily as possible. (This is really easy to do, as I don't even unplug the filter, just pull the pipe up and out, rinse the sponge thoroughly, taking about two minutes, then back in with the power still on and the waterline still at the top of the box).

The other good piece of husbandry advice is that you keep your sand bed and rock work clean with at least weekly (preferably right before a water change) stirring of the sand bed (to release the gunk into the water to be trapped in filter and skimmer) as well as blasting of the rock either with a powerhead (controlling flow with your palm against the inlet) or a turkey baster if you are more masochistic and like a workout. The sand bed can be done in portions if there are concerns of stirring up too much bacteria, but frankly I did the entire bed over several days and never had a problem. If you leave the bed for a few weeks and then stir it you will definitely notice the difference that daily/weekly stirring has!

Hope this helps. Happy reefing!

Ravsta · Oct 15, 2020

I’d defo have a skimmer. I think anything that helps reduce nutrients building up will keep your water cleaner for longer. I ran a 55 gallon sumpless system for 5 years with varying degrees of success. Water changes and skimmer were a life line.

AcanthurusRex · Oct 15, 2020

Filters like the Tidal remove particulates and provide an area for biological filtering. Skimmers remove dissolved pollution in the water and provide aeration.

TriggersAmuck · Oct 15, 2020

Just reading my response above, I could see a beginner going oh my, what have I gotten into! Trust me, it doesn't take very long at all to do the daily chores I just described, and doing so will really keep you in touch with observing everything going on in the tank, another skill which will be very valuable in the long term!

TriggersAmuck · Oct 15, 2020

AcanthurusRex said:
Filters like the Tidal remove particulates and provide an area for biological filtering. Skimmers remove dissolved pollution in the water and provide aeration.

Make no mistake, the gunk that builds up in a skimmer (or along an ocean shoreline) is particulate matter in addition to dissolved solutions. The action (binding to surfactants) is a physical one as well as chemical one. See this excellent article by @Randy Holmes-Farley - http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php#3

Occasionally you will here someone say that a skimmer pulls Nitrate out of the water column. No, it pulls particulate matter (albeit very fine matter) out of the column before it breaks down in the nitrogen cycle. Once Nitrate is in the water column, a skimmer will do nothing to remove it. (Not saying that you said this last point, but I am clarifying here for the benefit of the op).

AcanthurusRex · Oct 15, 2020

Maybe the bubbles will physically push some particulates out but that is not how they work.
The work due to the bubbles having a surface charge and trap oppositely charged molecules on the bubbles surface. The molecules that get trapped in most abundance in a fish tank are dissolved proteins, that is why they are called protein skimmers. The gunk is an accumulation of what the foaming action has trapped.

Faccia di Pesce · Oct 15, 2020

TriggersAmuck said:
Just reading my response above, I could see a beginner going oh my, what have I gotten into! Trust me, it doesn't take very long at all to do the daily chores I just described, and doing so will really keep you in touch with observing everything going on in the tank, another skill which will be very valuable in the long term!

lol, you read my mind LOL. thanks. Learning so much it does get overhwelming. But its all good!

Faccia di Pesce · Oct 15, 2020

Thanks all! Appreciate the input and recommendations. So what about a Canister Filter? Are they any good?

TriggersAmuck · Oct 15, 2020

daboom319 said:
Thanks all! Appreciate the input and recommendations. So what about a Canister Filter? Are they any good?

Canister filters are very efficient at trapping detritus, but (and here is the big "but") they are much harder to clean regularly and can be prone to having the accidental spill in the process. For this reason they are not so popular on reefs.

TriggersAmuck · Oct 15, 2020

daboom319 said:
lol, you read my mind LOL. thanks. Learning so much it does get overhwelming. But its all good!

Trust me, you will find plenty of videos/blogs on low maintenance reefs where the steps I mentioned are not taken. But you will definitely increase your chances of success if you do follow them. If you have a really small bio load, and you feed very lightly (like a pinch of food every three days) you can get by with minimal husbandry protocols. But why tempt fate from the beginning?

Faccia di Pesce · Oct 15, 2020

TriggersAmuck said:
Canister filters are very efficient at trapping detritus, but (and here is the big "but") they are much harder to clean regularly and can be prone to having the accidental spill in the process. For this reason they are not so popular on reefs.

thanks. Actually just watched a video saying bascically the same. Thanks