skimmers vs macro algae?

[Adam1985]

Ask away with the questions.

“Would the addition of the live food cause excessive nutrient issues or would doing water changes help balance this out?”

@Adam1985
get specific. What live food? @Dana Riddle adds live phytoplankton to an active reef and as some phyto is consumed yet some continues to grow consuming nutrients.

Thanks Subsea.

I think that question came from someone else, but actually I add live phytoplankton which I grow myself. I’m not sure in my system if all of it is consumed or if some also continues to grow. I don’t feed any other live food; rest is frozen or dry.

I don’t do a lot of water changes, really not many and maybe not enough, but I do them enough that can’t say I don’t do water changes at all.

 

[Subsea]

It may sound wierd , but can u draw it for me ? I may adapt your system if my DIY skills can handle it

Not sure what you want drawn, but My skills in that area are not good. What I have described with words is my drawing. If you ask a specific question, I may could link something on internet. I build biochemical integrated systems not equipment.

PS. Consider steps going upstairs. If the stairs were the bottom of a river and every foot traveled horizontally would drop one foot vertically, each cascading step of water would produce gas exchange. Instead of one 3’ drop, you could have nine 3” drops from display overflow to sump water level.

 

[Because Yes]

I see I think it’s clear for me now , thank you

 

[Subsea]

I see I think it’s clear for me now , thank you

While a fractional distillation tower is used on cooling hydrocarbon vapors rising, I see an ideal model for gas exchange with water falling from display tank to sump. Simple use 4” pvc with any matrix inside of column. As water falls, it will simulate “old school” wet dry filter.

PS. If you added reef rubble at the bottom of tower, this should work as a high flow cryptic refugium. Do not add socks as detritus is food for microbial loop.

 

[Adam1985]

While a fractional distillation tower is used on cooling hydrocarbon vapors rising, I see an ideal model for gas exchange with water falling from display tank to sump. Simple use 4” pvc with any matrix inside of column. As water falls, it will simulate “old school” wet dry filter.

PS. If you added reef rubble at the bottom of tower, this should work as a high flow cryptic refugium. Do not add socks as detritus is food for microbial loop.

This is an interesting and useful comparison, and and some industrial distillation columns are indeed are packed with media instead of having distinct stages with plates or equivalent.

For this gas exchange purpose though we’d have no tops and bottoms products but rather one air feed and outlet and one water feed and outlet. If going this route we would feed the input air at the bottom of the column and the water from the top, countercurrent. Bio balls or whatnot should thrive if used. Also you’ll get a small amount of evaporative cooling which depending on your situation might be a minor benefit.

If a drawing and design is truly wanted, my company offers tailored design services including designs like this (overseen by a licensed engineer). Happy to help in that regard, but I think it would be easier to just follow Subsea’s instructions as it doesn’t need extreme precision.

 

[SantaMonica]

Mulm's the word.

As for the skimmer-macro comparison, here is my blurb on it...

The easiest way to compare scrubbers to skimmers is to think about food. Food is "organic" and should not to be confused with human food "organic non-gmo food etc" that you eat.

Nutrients, However are "inorganic", and should not be confused with human food nutrients that you eat.

Scrubbers remove inorganics from the water: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, CO2, copper, etc, but do not remove food particles.

Scrubbers add organics to the water: Glucose, amino acids, vitamin C, etc. Oxygen and copepods too.

Protein skimmers, however, do the opposite. That's why they have the word "protein" in the name.

Skimmers remove food particles and copepods from the water, but do not remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, CO2, copper, etc.

Skimmers add oxygen to the water.

So the only thing in common is that scrubbers and skimmers both add oxygen to thfe water.

 

[Subsea]

[For this gas exchange purpose though we’d have no tops and bottoms products but rather one air feed and outlet and one water feed and outlet. If going this route we would feed the input air at the bottom of the column and the water from the top, countercurrent. Bio balls or whatnot should thrive if used. Also you’ll get a small amount of evaporative cooling which depending on your situation might be a minor benefit.]

@ADAM 1985
When I operated 10K gallon mariculture in greenhouse, I used counter flow degassers using bioballs. Depending on humidity of upflow air, much evaporative cooling took place during Texas summer days which was very beneficial at maintaining < 80 degrees during
> 100 degree afternoons. Mornings started out at 90% humidity. By noon when humidity dropped below 50%, cooling fans came on. By late afternoon with humidity
< 30%, evaporation required between 100-150G of make up each day.

Thermodynamics 101:
When 1 lb of water evaporates 1000 BTU of cooling takes place. At 8.5 lbs/gallon times 1000 BTU/lb times 100G the total evaporative cooling in a 6 hour time period equals 850,000 BTU. Round this number off to 1,000,000 BTU cooling using 300W water pump and 400W air compressor. So, 1 hp of electricity in 6 hours produced 1M BTU of cooling that’s 166,667 BTU/Hr. One ton of refrigeration electricity cools 12,500 BTU/Hr. So doing the math shows that evaporative cooling in aquaculture is 13.3 fold more efficient than using refrigeration cooling.

Economics drives Engineering.

 

[Subsea]

Mulm's the word.

As for the skimmer-macro comparison, here is my blurb on it...

The easiest way to compare scrubbers to skimmers is to think about food. Food is "organic" and should not to be confused with human food "organic non-gmo food etc" that you eat.

Nutrients, However are "inorganic", and should not be confused with human food nutrients that you eat.

Scrubbers remove inorganics from the water: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, CO2, copper, etc, but do not remove food particles.

Scrubbers add organics to the water: Glucose, amino acids, vitamin C, etc. Oxygen and copepods too.

Protein skimmers, however, do the opposite. That's why they have the word "protein" in the name.

Skimmers remove food particles and copepods from the water, but do not remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, CO2, copper, etc.

Skimmers add oxygen to the water.

So the only thing in common is that scrubbers and skimmers both add oxygen to thfe water.

kudoes to this post. That’s why I don’t use foam fractionators, they remove food for microbial loop.

 

[Adam1985]

[For this gas exchange purpose though we’d have no tops and bottoms products but rather one air feed and outlet and one water feed and outlet. If going this route we would feed the input air at the bottom of the column and the water from the top, countercurrent. Bio balls or whatnot should thrive if used. Also you’ll get a small amount of evaporative cooling which depending on your situation might be a minor benefit.]

@ADAM 1985
When I operated 10K gallon mariculture in greenhouse, I used counter flow degassers using bioballs. Depending on humidity of upflow air, much evaporative cooling took place during Texas summer days which was very beneficial at maintaining < 80 degrees during
> 100 degree afternoons. Mornings started out at 90% humidity. By noon when humidity dropped below 50%, cooling fans came on. By late afternoon with humidity
< 30%, evaporation required between 100-150G of make up each day.

Thermodynamics 101:
When 1 lb of water evaporates 1000 BTU of cooling takes place. At 8.5 lbs/gallon times 1000 BTU/lb times 100G the total evaporative cooling in a 6 hour time period equals 850,000 BTU. Round this number off to 1,000,000 BTU cooling using 300W water pump and 400W air compressor. So, 1 hp of electricity in 6 hours produced 1M BTU of cooling that’s 166,667 BTU/Hr. One ton of refrigeration electricity cools 12,500 BTU/Hr. So doing the math shows that evaporative cooling in aquaculture is 13.3 fold more efficient than using refrigeration cooling.

Economics drives Engineering.

Fully agree and that’s a cool real life example. Economics definitely drives engineering. Better, faster, safer, cheaper lol!

Actually I believe economic principles essentially drive most human actions when looked at from their most basic tenets.