Skimz Skimmer Rant...
- Thread starter Elgringodiablo
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rockskimmerflow
Well-Known Member
Please tell me you don't think a DC pump radiating 100W of output will run cooler than an AC pump running at 100W output.
Reeferdood
2500 Club Member
Watts to watts yes but my pumps are not drawing 100 watts...
You want to make this a ticking contest or something??
My system runs cooler since switching to DC pumps, what part of this can't you seem to comprehend?
You want to make this a ticking contest or something??
My system runs cooler since switching to DC pumps, what part of this can't you seem to comprehend?
rockskimmerflow
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you're so heated, but to reiterate the sole statement of yours I was replying to. 'And no heat transfer from an AC block'. Adding zero heat is very different than less. We can agree that using lower wattage pumps will add less heat, but switching to DC by no means implicates lower wattage. It depends on the pump. I find blanket generalizations like 'DC pumps add less heat' infuriating because it perpetuates misinformation. A higher wattage DC pump adds more heat than a lower wattage AC pump. And, of course, the reverse holds true. You chose lower wattage draw pumps and they happened be DC which is fine and great. Doesnt mean there is 'no heat transfer' though.
Have a great day. I hope you'll brush up on some of the stark similarities between reluctance motors and the common synchronous DC designs since you seem very invested in the attributes of the tech. You'll find efficiency is shockingly comparable between the two. AC has the highest theoretical efficiency, but DC definitely has the controllability edge.
Reeferdood
2500 Club Member
Do they even make a DC pump that will pull 100 watts for skimmer usage?
I am well educated on every topic I reply or offer advice to, this comes from years of experience. The reason I get defensive is when someone calls me out and tries to make me look like I am clueless.
I launch rockets for a living and do this for a hobby.
My advise is free and based on the things I have learned along the way.
Trust me, I have tried almost everything there is out there.
Just trying to save others from the headaches I have acquired along the way..
It’s all good.
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rockskimmerflow
Well-Known Member
I don't know much about launching rockets and wouldn't fathom offering advice on the matter, but I can tell you the Vectra L1 has a TDP of 130W along with a veritable myriad of other hobby DC pumps (why are skimmer pumps the only DC pumps comparable now and why are we fixated on 100W - it was an example if I had used 15w the analogy is the same), -abyzz even makes a skimmer pump that is massive wattage. So please don't take me the wrong way, I wasn't trying to call out your statement to make you look clueless, it just seems to be that you're not as well versed on the topic as you could be.
https://www.sewatec.de/skimmer-pumps/abyzz/abyzz-a200-as-skimmer-/-3m.html?language=en
I respect that you are trying to help. Just want to elevate the collective knowledge of this hobby by stopping the propagation of myths and misinformation. That's why I took issue with your statement that AC pumps add heat and DC pumps don't.
BTW not sure what aspect of the rocket industry you work in, but I've always had a love affair with the gas generator cycle engine design because (as you can tell) I'm keen on centrifugal pumping technology and the turbine powered, high pressure/flow fuel pumps are the most critical pieces of engineering that goes into those propulsion systems. Blows my mind the materials science as well as fluid flow dynamics that have to be optimized in those ludicrous pumps.
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Erica-Renee
Valuable Member
You can NOT Compare dc and ac pumps watt to watt on the actually pump power.. When you think about power usage of dc pumps you have to think about the consumption if its controller and ac to dc converter . So i agree a Internal DC Pump of equal strength will put less heat into the water (if it is well build and has a proper controller ) But a AC pump does not always use more power (watts) If you consider the other factors in dc pumps.. Nor is dc pumps cheaper by any means or more reliable..The fact is they are not.. ANYTIME you add electronic components electronics and logic to a ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT. you are adding a factor of possible catastrophic failure due to a electronic component.. AC Pumps do not have this issue...
Anyway my point is. they both have value.. But i know my REEFLO PUMP JUST WORKS. my dc pumps require maintenance . its because of the lack of electronics...
as far as heat in the water .. again . some are better then others.. 100w is 100w.. its being consumed anyway..
There is no right or wrong. to many variables...
Good Luck.. The blonde chic...
Anyway my point is. they both have value.. But i know my REEFLO PUMP JUST WORKS. my dc pumps require maintenance . its because of the lack of electronics...
as far as heat in the water .. again . some are better then others.. 100w is 100w.. its being consumed anyway..
There is no right or wrong. to many variables...
Good Luck.. The blonde chic...
rockskimmerflow
Well-Known Member
Well said on the many extraneous factors affecting DC pumps beyond simply wattage radiated. Although equal strength may be a misleading phrase. In a DC pump's chain of electrical flow including controller, power supply, and pump itself it becomes impossible to actually measure what is the emitted watts are into the tank with any exactness. A bit easier in an AC pump, but still not entirely simple to quantify. At the end of the day if a pump is receiving 10w, 50w, or 150w at the motor block and radiating that heat to the tank it makes no difference whether it's AC driven, DC driven, or coal fired. The watts of energy introduced to the tank will be the same. The key here is pump efficiency in terms of work performed/watts radiated. DC pumps are optimized most often for lower head pressure, higher flow applications so in many of our smaller aquarium settings they have a slight to sometimes large efficiency advantage over similar AC pumps due to the application. Now, your shaft driven Reeflo pump really is the peak we can do in terms of electrical wattage conversion into flow - just have some maintenance attached in the form of seals that need replacing. In terms of maintenance reduction and ultimate reliability there's nothing like an iwaki or pan world type mag coupled pump IMO. But again there is some efficiency lost in the coupling system. At the end of the day there is no perfect pump, just the perfect one for a given application and tank priorities.
Reeferdood
2500 Club Member
It's all good my friend.
Forums are similar to texts sometimes, things can be taken out of context really quickly leading to this type of scenario. We are both right so no further discussion on this matter is needed.
As for launching rockets, it is a very rewarding career but when I retire I will be coral farming. My heart is in it more than my work anymore. With reefing I find more enjoyment out of learning and being successful at growing corals than putting cool things in space. The only drawback to reefing is getting into spats on the forums..
Enjoy your weekend.
rockskimmerflow
Well-Known Member
Amen to that. I stopped doing engineering to build a business engineering ppl's dream aquariums. 7 years later and I haven't looked back. Best decision I ever made. And normally my aquarium advice isn't freeIt's all good my friend.
Forums are similar to texts sometimes, things can be taken out of context really quickly leading to this type of scenario. We are both right so no further discussion on this matter is needed.
As for launching rockets, it is a very rewarding career but when I retire I will be coral farming. My heart is in it more than my work anymore. With reefing I find more enjoyment out of learning and being successful at growing corals than putting cool things in space. The only drawback to reefing is getting into spats on the forums..
Enjoy your weekend.
Reeferdood
2500 Club Member
My buddy and I do it in Florida, we have some of the best clients with access to some amazing stuff. I help with the technical aspects of design on my free time from the rocket ranches, I work Vandenberg as well. One person in particular has his website on my page, he offers some amazing corals. We are also good friends with the guys at WWC and Top Shelf Aquatics, between the 3 of these sources alone are some of the most amazing corals on the planet.Amen to that. I stopped doing engineering to build a business engineering ppl's dream aquariums. 7 years later and I haven't looked back. Best decision I ever made. And normally my aquarium advice isn't free
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Yes and yes. Replacement was the white 1.2. Lasted 12.5 months.
Forsaken77
Valuable Member
I agree that a dc pump on a skimmer is pointless. If you have an issue going on that causes overflowing, raise the skimmer temporarily. The ac pumps are supposed to be tuned specifically for the body of the skimmer to work optimally.
As for Skimz, I always viewed them like a Jebao brand. Just how I looked at them for some reason. Plus I can never tell which Skimz models are newer, older, more powerful, ect... I would say they are BRS's equivalent to Marine Depot's AquaMaxx, though the AquaMaxx has a much better Sicce Shark pump.
DC pumps are great, imo, as return pumps and powerheads. I much rather tune a pump with its controller than artificially straining the pump with a valve. That's my biggest difference because there are silent ac pumps out there (like Fluval).
As for Skimz, I always viewed them like a Jebao brand. Just how I looked at them for some reason. Plus I can never tell which Skimz models are newer, older, more powerful, ect... I would say they are BRS's equivalent to Marine Depot's AquaMaxx, though the AquaMaxx has a much better Sicce Shark pump.
DC pumps are great, imo, as return pumps and powerheads. I much rather tune a pump with its controller than artificially straining the pump with a valve. That's my biggest difference because there are silent ac pumps out there (like Fluval).
OP
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Sure, I could raise the skimmer to help deal with the overflow, but that would entail getting in the sump lifting the skimmer out and inserting a 2-3 appropriately shaped pieces of egg crate. Seems a lot more difficult than pushing a button 2-3 times.
Overall, I get the point, 3 of my 4 skimmers are AC and the one I am replacing this one with is also AC, but DC does have some benefits. Pretty sure if it was a higher quality DC pump, like what RO, Ecotech, etc use, I wouldn't be having this issue.
I've never been a huge fan of Skimz either, but it was the best option for the footprint available at the time. Replacing it with a Reef Octopus Essence.
madweazl
2500 Club Member
I think the point is to figure out why they "go crazy" to begin with, correct it, and turn the skimmer back on. The comment about reducing the speed for a couple weeks until things calm down was bewildering; why would you wait weeks for something to self right?
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Prazipro... There are a few different medications that will make your skimmer go nuts for weeks. Nothing is 'wrong' with the tank, but it will be a while before it stops. My skimmer used to go bonkers when it was new as well, before it broke in all the way. Let's just agree to disagree, this debate has grown tiresome.
BOWHUNTER4250
Active Member
WORST skimmer i ever bought ! and customer service with them sucks ! had it for about 6 months and dumped it for a massive Bubble Magus and this things works awesome ! best skimmer Ive ever ran ....
so i agree with the ORIGINAL post .............. spend the money up front and you wont be nickel and dimed later !
so i agree with the ORIGINAL post .............. spend the money up front and you wont be nickel and dimed later !
Heat can be a issue in a small tank and yes I have had heavy issues in a small tank.
DC has allot of features. Lets say you use epoxy in your reef or something that changes the surface tension, with a dc pump you can turn the skimmer down so it does not over flow. No oxygen level drops by shutting off the skimmer.
They have soft start, they can be turned down for feed mode instead of off and I have had ac pumps not start back up after feed mode.
I heard of allot of issues with Skimz pumps, I believe they are Jebao.
