Slow declines in SPS, please advise me!

[dbrewsky]

hello,

I have been keeping sps frags in my system and they will do good for awhile, and then slowly loose polyp extension followed by color and weeks later stn. I am completely lost, I have been trying to address this by increasing light, decreasing nutrients, increasing nutrients... nothing seems to work.
Equipment
Tank: 48"x48"x12" ( actual water depth 8") ~100 gallons total system volume
Lighting: 2 Kessil A360 WE LED running peak 77% just reduced to 72% yesterday. Lights are hanging ~17" off the water. Lights ramp from minimum intensity and full actinic over roughly 2 hours for intensity and 3 hours for color and then ramp back down in opposite over a twelve hour period. Full intensity photo period lasts 8 hours between 10,000K-14,000K.
Skimmer: Vertex A150
Flow: 3 Sicce Stream 2 (800 gph) + Iwaki return for roughly 2400 gph system flow.
Salt: HW marine mix Reefer @1.025 specific gravity.
Cal/Alk: Dosing BRS two part at 60ml/per day split into 30ml doses dosed at roughly 12 hour intervals. Dosed manually.

Nutrients
Fish 1 Tomini Tang 3", 2 Ocellaris Clownfish 2.5", Tail spot Blenny 2.5", purple firefish 3". Fish are fed twice daily with a main feeding of various high quality frozen foods. The auxillary feeding may be New life Spectrum pelets or additional frozen food portion. Tang is feed a small piece of nori every other day.
Supplements/Coral foods I dose acropower at 20ml every three days in addition to 1/2tsp of oyster feast. Infrequently will dose bottled phyto, brs reef chili, or reef roids.


Parameters

Salinity: 1.025 Confirmed with refractometer and calibration is checked with 1.026 Cal. fluid.
Magnesium:1600 via red sea test kit- has always been high- unsure if test kit is off. I am not added additional magnesium

This is a mix of sps that were added at various times some are new while others have been deteriorating for several weeks at this point.

These are results as of this evening.

 

[dbrewsky]

Additional pics notice the Monitpora Digitata on the rocks in the top center.

 

[Arron209]

I'd say you need more light. Maybe more flow too.

 

[dbrewsky]

I can't tell if the light is too intense or not. A lot of my corals fade in color, but at the same time my lights are at 77% on a tank which is only 8" deep? I've been soo confused because people keep saying to be careful with the kessils since they are very powerful!

The flow from the sicces are enough to blow over the frags if I point it directly at them. Would that be enough flow?

Thank you !

 

[Diesel]

I see the Graphics from ALK and CAL, how do you measure them and with what?
All other things you do seems for the basics ok.
A tank with the dimensions of 48x48 I'm not sure if two kessils will be enough, other than your frags will be direct under the unit.
I've a friend who has 6 radions pro 3 on his 48x48x20 tank, go figure.
Also your flow, is that Sicce pump on a wave mode or direct steady flow?
Look into a Triton test for your water, you be amazed what kind of results come out of that.
GL and keep us informed here.

 

[dbrewsky]

I have been using the Red Sea test kits and I tend to test shortly after the two part dose is added.

The sicce are on steady and I am hoping to order additional, stronger pumps and run them using the apex as a wave maker. I also plan on getting dosing pumps set up for the two part.

The spa are directly under the kessils and the lps and zoas get the feathered light to the sides. I agree that in order to have sps everywhere you would want additional lights!

 

[dbrewsky]

What steps should I take to attempt to resolve these issues? Is it possible to reverse some of these frags?

 

[MattL22]

How long is tank up and running I had issues for almost a yr in my latest system then things finally started growing other then give tank time to settle if it's new if ur truely at a loss do a bunch of wc not necessarily lg wc but double even triple up on them for a few weeks see if things start to improve
Gl

 

[Diesel]

What steps should I take to attempt to resolve these issues? Is it possible to reverse some of these frags?

It's hard to tell.
It seems like there's something in your water that SPS doesn't like.
Direct constant flow for SPS is a NoNo too.
Again a secondary test will surprise you on your water.
Triton cost only $50 for the whole test, I'm sure you already lost more than that on SPS.
No brainer to me.

 

[whixley101]

Could not agree more^^^^^^

 

[dbrewsky]

Are we in agreement that we are looking at a water quality issue? I will look into the Triton Test!

I will try and set my apex to use the wave maker function, although it seems to be fairly random for being constantly on, however I have heard that flow is key from one of the big time growers.

Are lights and everything else where they should be?

I did forget to mention that I have been running about 8tbs of ROX .08 carbon and 3tbs of GFO with the gfo changed about monthly and carbon ever two weeks or so.

 

[dbrewsky]

I have been holding off on water changes as an attempt to raise my nutrients from undetectable. I would say its been 3 weeks since ive done a small water change.

 

[ronnie]

Don't test after adding supplements. Test before. You may be getting a false reading that could cause a higher reading than you really have. You tend to hover around 8.5dkh, which could be 7.5dkh or lower (testing error - which is natural given the hobby quality of test kits) before you dose. That would cause STN.

 

[dbrewsky]

interesting! thank you for the feeback, I always wondered if it was best to test before or after. I will retest tomorrow morning and post just to see how much its dropping and post on here.

 

[hinovak]

How often are you doing water changes? And what amount of gallons? I have a tank similar size to yours, and I was way over feeding, I thought there was no way, because I do weekly water changes, and I actually have the same skimmer as you. I noticed I had slower growth, and some polyp retention. Brought one of my buddies over that works at the lfs. And fed in front of him. Turns out, way over feeding, I cut it in half, and reduced the amounts of aminos added. With in weeks, I had better growth. This might not be it at all, but As a precautionary, try bringing someone who has allot of experience to see your feeding, and to look over your routines. Sometimes they will notice something you are doing that you don't realize.

 

[Triggreef]

I agree with testing before dosing. Also IMO dosing smaller amounts more often keeps it that much more stable. I also agree about doing a triton test. Don't put it off, get on it, the sooner you do the sooner you'll have your results.

Also what are you using when supplying water? Ro/do? TDS? And what water do you use to thaw your frozen foods?

 

[dbrewsky]

Just wanted to thank everyone who has already replied, I greatly appreciate the input as I have been researching for weeks trying to figure things out!

triggreef- I plan to implement dosing pumps here shortly to help stabilize the alk/cal.

I am very curious to see what the triton test will show- I will get started on that!

I am using my own brs 6-stage universal ro/di since my area does have chloramines. The unit is new as I just got it in jan-feb. Water is 1-2 tds coming off the membrane and 0 after the first di resin stage. I do have chlorine/chloramines test kits to test the product water as well.

 

[that Reef Guy]

I can't tell if the light is too intense or not. A lot of my corals fade in color, but at the same time my lights are at 77% on a tank which is only 8" deep? I've been soo confused because people keep saying to be careful with the kessils since they are very powerful!

The flow from the sicces are enough to blow over the frags if I point it directly at them. Would that be enough flow?

Thank you !

+1

Powerful Lights
Very Shallow Tank

I would lower the Light Intensity and see what happens.

 

[dbrewsky]

I did test alk this morning and it was a 8.12 dkh.

The lights are exactly 16" off the water and most sps are sitting around six inches in the water. So a total distance of 22" from the lights

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

they may be out of the blue, but do you have any pumps/water flow that your apex turns on and off? This looks A LOT like a problem i had (bad colors, STN from the bottom up). I was turning my chiller pump on and off to run my chiller. Sometimes the chiller wouldn't run for a day and then when it did, it would blast my tank with amonia and such from all the dead stuff in the tubing and chiller reservoir. one time i turned it on to pump some water into a bucket, and it smelled like someone just smashed a rotton egg in my face. after i changed the flow to always on things got waaaayyy better for me.

When stuff goes bad for me, i go back to basics, 10-15% WC every week, no carbon, no gfo. Just skimmer, circulation, nutrients and light.