Slowly winning the GHA battle; What steps next?

[Phyber]

Brief history: 3 year old sps dominant tank has been a dream until the last 6-12 months. Small tufts of GHA turned into a full on explosion. Two more stages of DI resin was added to my RODI, water change schedule increased (in reality, it was started again as I had slacked), skimmer was cleaned and tuned for more wet, GFO reactor was installed in sump, and a drafting of CUC was added (multiple Sea Hares as they seem to unfortunately love my MP40, short spine urchins, sea cucumber, blue hermits, etc.)

After my last water change, I have just a few spots that I can't reach by hand or with a toothbrush for manual removal, but they seem to be the last remnants of my GHA infestation. The entire time before, during, and after, my water tests never came back to me with alarming results...There would be nitrate and phosphate variances, but nothing crazy. For the bulk of the time I've been trying just to get readings from this tank at all.

Should I switch from GFO to a mix of carbon/GFO, or Biopellets, now that I'm on the tail end of this incident? I am leaning towards the biopellets so that it is an easier process overall (just keep topped up) that will help my nutrient levels, but am looking for the best option, if one is needed at all. Thanks!

EDIT:
Tank is a 65g Marineland. There are still some GHA remnants deep in the colonies of my staghorn and birdsnests as I just can't get in there without damage to the coral or myself. I have noticed over the past few water changes that the GHA clumps are easier to suck out with a hose, and didn't require hand pulling.

 

[brandon429]

you want to prepare against getting dinos as the second challenge, or cyano, tradeoff invasions are found constantly in these battles

post a tank pic, and how many gallons is the tank

that helps us see waste pocket areas if any that weren't addressed in the recent gha battle, and in fact may stand to increase if not exported. those controls mentioned in the poll are just shy of guaranteed dinos battle coming up.

 

[Dhaleillama]

you want to prepare against getting dinos as the second challenge, or cyano, tradeoff invasions are found constantly in these battles

post a tank pic, and how many gallons is the tank

that helps us see waste pocket areas if any that weren't addressed in the recent gha battle, and in fact may stand to increase if not exported. those controls mentioned in the poll are just shy of guaranteed dinos battle coming up.

Don't you feel nitrate and phosphate are way to low? I aim for 5-10ppm nitrate and .04-.08 phosphate and notice when they are low thats when the ugly stuff comes out.

 

[brandon429]

The pic may also show crucial aquascape change ups vs current that allow better control directly, or waste pocketing vs sandbed details if any...gha for sources of waste storage

The params are not an issue imo and to be addressed last since we have gha free examples available for all param variances... in addition I find the lengthy tradeoff invasions to come right after parameter detailing based on any common cyano gha or dinos pattern thread.

 

[Phyber]

you want to prepare against getting dinos as the second challenge, or cyano, tradeoff invasions are found constantly in these battles

post a tank pic, and how many gallons is the tank

that helps us see waste pocket areas if any that weren't addressed in the recent gha battle, and in fact may stand to increase if not exported. those controls mentioned in the poll are just shy of guaranteed dinos battle coming up.

Hi! Sorry, OP updated with pics.

 

[Phyber]

Don't you feel nitrate and phosphate are way to low? I aim for 5-10ppm nitrate and .04-.08 phosphate and notice when they are low thats when the ugly stuff comes out.

For the longest time my phosphate tests came back 0. I'm running Salifert tests and would even double up the ingredients as recommended to get a lower phosphate reading and it would be clear. For that reason, I didn't test often or purchase a Hanna. No algae issues, so IMO no need to spend more money. Even once the GHA popped up I wasn't getting an alarming reading. Only nitrate "spiked" to ~2.5.

 

[Lavey29]

Don't you feel nitrate and phosphate are way to low? I aim for 5-10ppm nitrate and .04-.08 phosphate and notice when they are low thats when the ugly stuff comes out.

Agreed, with low numbers like that, dinos will be the next challenge.

If phosphate is 0 why run GFO?

 

[Dhaleillama]

The pic may also show crucial aquascape change ups vs current that allow better control directly, or waste pocketing vs sandbed details if any...gha for sources of waste storage

The params are not an issue imo and to be addressed last since we have gha free examples available for all param variances... in addition I find the lengthy tradeoff invasions to come right after parameter detailing based on any common cyano gha or dinos pattern thread.

Interesting. I have always fixed parameters to stop the GHA growth and support, dose bacteria to help fight it like microbacteria7, make sure no dead spots with flow, light schedule isn't to long or the Kelvin is high enough so the GHA doesn't feed as much too.

 

[Dhaleillama]

For the longest time my phosphate tests came back 0. I'm running Salifert tests and would even double up the ingredients as recommended to get a lower phosphate reading and it would be clear. For that reason, I didn't test often or purchase a Hanna. No algae issues, so IMO no need to spend more money. Even once the GHA popped up I wasn't getting an alarming reading. Only nitrate "spiked" to ~2.5.

I have even had red sea test kits not read how I felt it should have so for Phosphate and Nitrate I ended up getting hannah ones, ever since then I can keep my phosphate and nitrate pretty stable

 

[Phyber]

Agreed, with low numbers like that, dinos will be the next challenge.

If phosphate is 0 why run GFO?

I had to assume that there was indeed a phosphate issue, other wise I'd have no GHA. Nitrates had always been a struggle just to keep a 1 reading.

I am in a rural area and have well water. I was lax with my DI replacement since CO2 would always eat it up, and I settled on accepting a 003ppm water output for ATO and water changes. I suppose the farmers in the area did something different and I ended up with more phosphates than usual, and I'm here now.

 

[Dhaleillama]

I had to assume that there was indeed a phosphate issue, other wise I'd have no GHA. Nitrates had always been a struggle just to keep a 1 reading.

I am in a rural area and have well water. I was lax with my DI replacement since CO2 would always eat it up, and I settled on accepting a 003ppm water output for ATO and water changes. I suppose the farmers in the area did something different and I ended up with more phosphates than usual, and I'm here now.

Sadly even 1ppm can cause issues because you just don't know WHAT isn't being cleaned out of your water. And low phosphate and nitrate can CAUSE outbreaks of different things

 

[Phyber]

Sadly even 1ppm can cause issues because you just don't know WHAT isn't being cleaned out of your water. And low phosphate and nitrate can CAUSE outbreaks of different things

This is very true. It seemed for the first two winters I had cyano like crazy. I'd try the treatments to no avail and alas it went away on its own. I feed mostly flake food so I would assume I'm doing good adding nitrates to the water column.

I really don't want to setup a degassing chamber for my rodi, and I really didn't want to add on DI stages or have to keep buying DI in bulk, but I guess that's my new assignment. Between my 35g ato container and a 20g brute fill up for a water change, that eats up one canister of DI.

 

[brandon429]

how dirty is that sand/looks clean in cross section/not full of black spots agreed but its unlikely to be non contributing to gha, most deep beds are when they're cloudy

if you put a stick or hand in there and grab sand and drop it, or disturb a test corner, does a big cloud come out or do the grains just fall up and down like a snowglobe without a cloud (Ive seen a guy's diamond-goby cleaned sandbed pass a drop test without any manual cleaning, most can't pass it and have a super cloudy bed)

the angle working here is that tank is is pristine balance above. its free of gha because you became your ideal grazer


chemically starving 100% of your algae requiring zero targeted grazing to maintain this look is the real hidden risk, if your goal is to have 100% algae free detailing and never have to keep manually causing this you're seeking the 1% balance where 99% get dinos instead...assessing that dsb's contribution to the last vestiges of gha here + their regrowth potential is in line with one of my fifty page gha fix threads where we didnt measure params ever, and still fixed up fifty pages of gha tanks. that tank is larger than most nanos so it will require work to clean that bed if its indeed really cloudy, but then again ignoring the clouding contribution if any is just going to make gha come back again and cause you to attempt to starve it again over and over with param adjustments, and this brings dinos soon

your tank is primarily at the ideal stage, we can't see any algae in pics and what you can see in fine detail is what any scuba diver would see on a GBR reef dive in perfect waters, these algae in fine balance are a sign of health of the reef, not bad params or params out of balance. my brainstorm angle is physical controls vs chemical ones, because that doesnt cause dinos ever. we dont have a dinos outbreak in any of our physically-controlled gha threads not one time.

the sps is so well grown you can't really change up that scape for better access, so time to decide if you want the rest of the gha gone or can just live with it as-is and will do the accessible cleanings to guide it out in the future, exactly as you've done here to earn these pics above. If that sandbed has any clouding, and you clean it properly aka a rip clean, then the bed will have zero clouding and that move alone can starve off the remaining gha slowly without causing dinos and the secondary benefit shown in rip cleaning threads is you don't get cyano, or gha either. rip cleaned tanks restrict those growths vs cause them.

your tank is in perfect balance now, and to make it 100% gha free in every nook without grazing (man grazing or animal version) you'll need to risk parameter detailing to avoid any physical work in the matter. We never do this in my threads we do 100% manual work detailing to keep control over the outcomes for fifty pages or better. we trade off the work nobody wants to do with the assurance they wont' kill their tank or get dinos five weeks later, parameter detailing cannot deliver that although in its luckiest outcome you'll kill the final stages of gha without having to lift a finger, its a luck vs command game for this last bit of algae. I'd recommend leaving it as is unless the sand is very cloudy, then Id recommend a rip clean so that its not cloudy. a rip clean isn't dangerous or over reaction, its what we do to move reefs like that and far bigger ones to new homes without killing stuff. To make that reef 100% clean as it sits, without moving to a new home, isn't harmful in the least it makes them shine like a gem in every case documented.

 

[Phyber]

how dirty is that sand/looks clean in cross section/not full of black spots agreed but its unlikely to be non contributing to gha, most deep beds are when they're cloudy

if you put a stick or hand in there and grab sand and drop it, or disturb a test corner, does a big cloud come out or do the grains just fall up and down like a snowglobe without a cloud (Ive seen a guy's diamond-goby cleaned sandbed pass a drop test without any manual cleaning, most can't pass it and have a super cloudy bed)

the angle working here is that tank is is pristine balance above. its free of gha because you became your ideal grazer


chemically starving 100% of your algae requiring zero targeted grazing to maintain this look is the real hidden risk, if your goal is to have 100% algae free detailing and never have to keep manually causing this you're seeking the 1% balance where 99% get dinos instead...assessing that dsb's contribution to the last vestiges of gha here + their regrowth potential is in line with one of my fifty page gha fix threads where we didnt measure params ever, and still fixed up fifty pages of gha tanks. that tank is larger than most nanos so it will require work to clean that bed if its indeed really cloudy, but then again ignoring the clouding contribution if any is just going to make gha come back again and cause you to attempt to starve it again over and over with param adjustments, and this brings dinos soon

your tank is primarily at the ideal stage, we can't see any algae in pics and what you can see in fine detail is what any scuba diver would see on a GBR reef dive in perfect waters, these algae in fine balance are a sign of health of the reef, not bad params or params out of balance. my brainstorm angle is physical controls vs chemical ones, because that doesnt cause dinos ever. we dont have a dinos outbreak in any of our physically-controlled gha threads not one time.

the sps is so well grown you can't really change up that scape for better access, so time to decide if you want the rest of the gha gone or can just live with it as-is and will do the accessible cleanings to guide it out in the future, exactly as you've done here to earn these pics above. If that sandbed has any clouding, and you clean it properly aka a rip clean, then the bed will have zero clouding and that move alone can starve off the remaining gha slowly without causing dinos and the secondary benefit shown in rip cleaning threads is you don't get cyano, or gha either. rip cleaned tanks restrict those growths vs cause them.

your tank is in perfect balance now, and to make it 100% gha free in every nook without grazing (man grazing or animal version) you'll need to risk parameter detailing to avoid any physical work in the matter. We never do this in my threads we do 100% manual work detailing to keep control over the outcomes for fifty pages or better. we trade off the work nobody wants to do with the assurance they wont' kill their tank or get dinos five weeks later, parameter detailing cannot deliver that although in its luckiest outcome you'll kill the final stages of gha without having to lift a finger, its a luck vs command game for this last bit of algae. I'd recommend leaving it as is unless the sand is very cloudy, then Id recommend a rip clean so that its not cloudy.

The sandbed indeed clouds after being disturbed. I had a large fleet of nassarius snails that would always be working the sand, I suppose they have died off. I do have a large (for my tank) 6" sea cucumber that is allegedly cleaning the sand, but I have never seen him in action, just his poop piles of sand.

Prior to all this, I was doing daily dosing of Red Sea AB+ to coax better coral growth and color out of them, and aid in nutrient count. I suppose I added too much, and this is the result if so. I can't blame it explicitly since I am guilty of neglect and slacking, but I did read other reports of GHA after using AB+. Since I've been on the repair I have not used it at all.

I do have some SPS corals that are "bleached"... they have polyps that appear but the stalks are white, no longer purple or green. Will these come back in time?

 

[brandon429]

any use of gfo or biopellets can be involved in that bleaching especially if the lighting hits brightly in those spots, agreed on the AB+ as a potential causative 100% agreed. in my tiny pico 1 drop per gallon is the max I can use before notable gha begins. most people dose 10x that amount, really a potential cause for sure. thats why I dont want to tip params in anyway further, if you get bleaching already thats the farthest you should take param detailing and we dont even know if the params measured would agree on other kits, you could be far off the mark we can see in test kit comparison threads. reducing that ab and potentially reducing light levels and intensity if the bleaching doesnt reverse is recommended, and any time you want that bed cleaned we can do it but it'll take hours work so most wont do it until something bad is actually happening. youve taken the tank to about as much indirect control of algae I can recommend for that great sps growth, be physical with it from here on out. always set params to what corals want, not what starves gha and let animals or human grazing make the final controls. Those sandbed cleaners are slow moving, they input waste pellets vs a fish which kicks up waste to be exported, all those animals are adding to bed clouding vs fixing it. eventually that'll be a tipping point but not for a while, since your gha is low level clearly the bed isn't a big source but if you wanted it clean your tank would benefit vs be harmed; a post-rip cleaned tank can be fed twice as well as the mode where bare feed is offered to prevent more algae, and better feeding is along the lines of action that reduce bleaching for sure.

 

[SPR1968]

Brief history: 3 year old sps dominant tank has been a dream until the last 6-12 months. Small tufts of GHA turned into a full on explosion. Two more stages of DI resin was added to my RODI, water change schedule increased (in reality, it was started again as I had slacked), skimmer was cleaned and tuned for more wet, GFO reactor was installed in sump, and a drafting of CUC was added (multiple Sea Hares as they seem to unfortunately love my MP40, short spine urchins, sea cucumber, blue hermits, etc.)

After my last water change, I have just a few spots that I can't reach by hand or with a toothbrush for manual removal, but they seem to be the last remnants of my GHA infestation. The entire time before, during, and after, my water tests never came back to me with alarming results...There would be nitrate and phosphate variances, but nothing crazy. For the bulk of the time I've been trying just to get readings from this tank at all.

Should I switch from GFO to a mix of carbon/GFO, or Biopellets, now that I'm on the tail end of this incident? I am leaning towards the biopellets so that it is an easier process overall (just keep topped up) that will help my nutrient levels, but am looking for the best option, if one is needed at all. Thanks!

EDIT:
Tank is a 65g Marineland. There are still some GHA remnants deep in the colonies of my staghorn and birdsnests as I just can't get in there without damage to the coral or myself. I have noticed over the past few water changes that the GHA clumps are easier to suck out with a hose, and didn't require hand pulling.

GHA often uses phosphate as a food source, and hence you get false zero readings So if you have a GHA issue you need phosphate removal media/methods in place to remove the food source and keep it that way.

Personally I would leave the GFO in place (and make sure you change it regularly to start), I run rowaphos 24/7 and heavy in both my systems to make sure it’s locked down

As far as nitrate, just add a few more fish and feed them, you have plenty of room in there still and a good general target is around 5-10

As far as carbon is concerned it removes different toxins, but again I would run it 24/7 and change around every 4 weeks depending on what your using.

 

[brandon429]

Add new fish

dont skip disease preps

+ velvet to the list of predicted upcoming challenges