Small worm ID?

[Solasis]

Very small, I had a few in my sand. Seemed pretty slow and didn't react much to light.

 

[Solasis]

Any ideas? @ISpeakForTheSeas

 

[BristleWormHater]

Its a demonic creature known as a small bristle worm (Not an expert)

 

[Solasis]

Its a demonic creature known as a small bristle worm

You think it's a bristle and not a eunice? It's body is weird to me

 

[Solasis]

I will say it was pretty slow and didn't react much to light. The eunices I've dealt with in the past would scurry with any light or movement.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Any ideas? @ISpeakForTheSeas

I'd need closer, clearer pics to say beyond it being a Bristleworm (Polychaete) of some variety, but I don't think it's a Eunicid (or at least not a predatory Eunicid) - the predatory ones we get in the hobby typically are fairly large, have five (usually striped) tentacles on their heads, move fast, typically are found burrowed in a rock that they refuse to fully leave, and generally have a white ring around their body near their head.

Generally speaking, interstitial worms like this (worms living in-between the rocks/sand of the substrate) are typically harmless/beneficial detritivores or prey on microfauna (like other small worms or pods).

So, personally, I wouldn't worry about it - if you can get clearer pics, I can try for an ID, but no guarantees (relatively nondescript worms are tough, haha).

 

[Solasis]

I'd need closer, clearer pics to say beyond it being a Bristleworm (Polychaete) of some variety, but I don't think it's a Eunicid (or at least not a predatory Eunicid) - the predatory ones we get in the hobby typically are fairly large, have five (usually striped) tentacles on their heads, move fast, typically are found burrowed in a rock that they refuse to fully leave, and generally have a white ring around their body near their head.

Generally speaking, interstitial worms like this (worms living in-between the rocks/sand of the substrate) are typically harmless/beneficial detritivores or prey on microfauna (like other small worms or pods).

So, personally, I wouldn't worry about it - if you can get clearer pics, I can try for an ID, but no guarantees (relatively nondescript worms are tough, haha).

Yeah, I'm trying for a clearer Pic but they are so small it's hard. I hope it's just a detrivore as it seems I have a few living in my sand bed. Never added any coral or liverock so idk where they came from. Would any fish sift through the sand and eat these?

Thanks for the help!

 

[BristleWormHater]

Yeah, I'm trying for a clearer Pic but they are so small it's hard. I hope it's just a detrivore as it seems I have a few living in my sand bed. Never added any coral or liverock so idk where they came from. Would any fish sift through the sand and eat these?

Thanks for the help!

A goby and pistol shrimp would probably eat it like French fries

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Yeah, I'm trying for a clearer Pic but they are so small it's hard.

Yeah, it can be really tough to get good pics of critters that small.

Would any fish sift through the sand and eat these?

Possibly, but I wouldn't count on it doing much to the population - your best bet in that regard would probably be something like a sand-sifting goby or similar.

 

[Solasis]

A goby and pistol shrimp would probably eat it like French fries

Yeah, it can be really tough to get good pics of critters that small.

Possibly, but I wouldn't count on it doing much to the population - your best bet in that regard would probably be something like a sand-sifting goby or similar.

I should've mentioned this is an 8 foot fowlr so I can get something a lot bigger. Something like a dragon wrasse or red coris?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I should've mentioned this is an 8 foot fowlr so I can get something a lot bigger. Something like a dragon wrasse or red coris?

I wouldn't expect them to go out of their way for worms that small, but I may be wrong there - maybe one of the wrasse guys like @Slocke or @i cant think would know there. I was thinking a sand-sifting fish because they sift through the sand to filter out little food items anyway, but I'm not sure how they would do with aggressive tankmates.

 

[BristleWormHater]

I should've mentioned this is an 8 foot fowlr so I can get something a lot bigger. Something like a dragon wrasse or red coris?

I don't know much about wrasses, sorry

 

[Slocke]

Dragon wrasse are like cats. Lazy but curious and also love to kill. So though a dragon may not kill them for food it might eat them for sport. However be aware that they can cause chaos and I would be wary of having any small rocks that you don’t want moved/overturned.

A coris wrasse is more peaceful, less chaotic, and a bit less curious. But still all of those things.

Edit: by Coris I mean of the genus Coris. Not the misnamed “coris” wrasse like the yellow.

 

[Solasis]

Dragon wrasse are like cats. Lazy but curious and also love to kill. So though a dragon may not kill them for food it might eat them for sport. However be aware that they can cause chaos and I would be wary of having any small rocks that you don’t want moved/overturned.

A coris wrasse is more peaceful, less chaotic, and a bit less curious. But still all of those things.

Only other 2 wrasses are a cleaner wrasse and a melanarus. I like the red coris a lot. How would introduction go? He's a full grown male I've had for about a year.

 

[Slocke]

Only other 2 wrasses are a cleaner wrasse and a melanarus. I like the red coris a lot. How would introduction go? He's a full grown male I've had for about a year.

I had all 3 for a while. They are all fairly distantly related and so should be fine but sometimes melanarus are mean. Acclimation box is always the best way if even just for a couple days. Also getting a slightly bigger C gaimard should prevent aggression.

 

[Solasis]

I'd need closer, clearer pics to say beyond it being a Bristleworm (Polychaete) of some variety, but I don't think it's a Eunicid (or at least not a predatory Eunicid) - the predatory ones we get in the hobby typically are fairly large, have five (usually striped) tentacles on their heads, move fast, typically are found burrowed in a rock that they refuse to fully leave, and generally have a white ring around their body near their head.

Generally speaking, interstitial worms like this (worms living in-between the rocks/sand of the substrate) are typically harmless/beneficial detritivores or prey on microfauna (like other small worms or pods).

So, personally, I wouldn't worry about it - if you can get clearer pics, I can try for an ID, but no guarantees (relatively nondescript worms are tough, haha).

Welp, I got a better Pic and I'm pretty sure it's a eunice. I can see it's face.

 

[Solasis]

@ISpeakForTheSeas Not sure if you see it but there seems to be 2 tentacles on the face bending down. Do eunice usually do that or is there a chance this is something else?

 

[Solasis]

@JoJosReef I was also reading through some posts and you mentioned the whiskers bending backwards might mean its a dorvilleid?

 

[JoJosReef]

For what it's worth, I've rarely seen Eunice worms (specifically ones I've acquired from Gulf live rock) hang out in the substrate next to the glass. They seem to detect motion extremely well and are skittish, so it would be back inside of its rock hole in a flash. I do believe that they make sand tubes extending out of their rocks and through the substrate. I've seen them pop their heads out of sand tubes occasionally.

To me, those that you've shown could be baby bristleworms. Or other types. I have interesting worms squiggling all about at night.

Re: Dorvillidae tentacles, there are 4, and two bend backwards on either side. That is, to my limited knowledge. Here's a video of one:

New video by Joseph Campo

photos.app.goo.gl

And this is quite an exciting one:

New video by Joseph Campo

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Joseph Campo

photos.app.goo.gl

Hard to see the four antennae on that one, and @ISpeakForTheSeas might have a more accurate ID on it. Was caught at night swimming in the overflow above the filter floss.

Meanwhile, this is a Eunice worm successfully extracted:

New item by Joseph Campo

photos.app.goo.gl

Don't ask me how, I can't remember. Was likely throwing away the rock it was living in because they are next to impossible to remove otherwise.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

@ISpeakForTheSeas Not sure if you see it but there seems to be 2 tentacles on the face bending down. Do eunice usually do that or is there a chance this is something else?

With just two tentacles visible, I'd be inclined to think it's not a Eunicid - I'd be inclined to think it's probably a Dorvilleid with four tentacles, two of which are just difficult to see. Eunicids have the five tentacles (the "five prostomial appendages" listed below), so I really doubt yours is a Eunicid worm:

"3.2. Morphology​

Eunicidae is defined by two synapomorphies, dorsal buccal lip fused to the dorsal side of the prostomium and dorsolateral fold anterior extensions medially connected [11] (Figure 5A–E). Additional diagnostic features are present at prostomium, peristomium and jaws. These are ventral buccal lips with median transverse groove, one (single median antenna) to five prostomial appendages (a pair of palps, a pair of lateral antennae and a single median antenna), double ringed peristomium (Figure 1A and Figure 5A–E), and asymmetric eulabidognath maxillae (Figure 3G). The family encompasses great length variation, bearing species from few millimeters to few meters long. All species have a variable number of chaetigers."*

Regardless, as mentioned, your worm is most likely completely harmless/beneficial (even if it is a Eunicid species):

Generally speaking, Dorvilleids are harmless/beneficial. Eunicids, on the other hand, can be either harmless/beneficial, mildly risky (think opportunistic predators eating things like snails, small crustaceans, fish larvae, etc. when starved or when the prey is weak enough), or outright predatory. Some are predators while others are literally herbivores (fun fact, even some of the predators - such as the infamous bobbit worm - will still take algae when given the chance). With that in mind, many (possibly most) Eunicids are also harmless/beneficial, so even if it's a Eunicid, it may not be a bad thing.

*Source:

The Current State of Eunicida (Annelida) Systematics and Biodiversity

In this study, we analyze the current state of knowledge on extant Eunicida systematics, morphology, feeding, life history, habitat, ecology, distribution patterns, local diversity and exploitation. Eunicida is an order of Errantia annelids characterized by the presence of ventral mandibles and...

www.mdpi.com