So.. Banggai Cardinalfish
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Lionfish Lair
Renee
Nothing happens to the ones in your tank.
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
Ones already in tanks get 'grandfathered' in. But the whole threatened status is pretty flawed.
The government report is based off of ten year old info and doesn't take into account invasive populations throughout Indonesia.
The government report is based off of ten year old info and doesn't take into account invasive populations throughout Indonesia.
Damon
Well-Known Member
But.. What about say babies in your tank? Are we still going to be able to sell them for instance to fish stores? To other hobbyists?
I have an active pair that are turning out to be endless breeders and am concerned not only about them, but their offspring..
I have an active pair that are turning out to be endless breeders and am concerned not only about them, but their offspring..
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
Currently there are no restrictions, but if/when there are, as long as it's not commercial you will be ok dealing with other hobbyists. Probably.
Fish stores won't be allow to have them, though.
Fish stores won't be allow to have them, though.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
I would think the captive breeding programs would continue on as normal. It's the wild caughts only that will be affected. The captive breeding of seahorses sprang from them being Red Listed. Yes, we were trying before that, but soon as we heard it was coming, we made it happen. The stores were still able to sell the captive breds. I remember it being a bit of a pain, but I don't remember the particulars of what they had to do.
Importation/exportation are the key words.
This is how it went down with seahorses.
We heard they were going to be red listed. We really buckled down and worked on breeding. We kind of did some stock piling of the wild caughts.
When it was official, there wasn't a horse in the stores anywhere. No one was officially breeding them at that time, so there was no captive bred stock to sell. This is where the cardinals will differ, as they have programs already in place. The stores weren't carrying WCs, because no one was sure of the laws, at time.
People continued to breed them and some hobbyists turned into professional breeders. The majority of the seahorses you see in the stores today are captive bred. Every now and then you see some wild caughts, but I'm sure there is special paperwork with them.
Importation/exportation are the key words.
This is how it went down with seahorses.
We heard they were going to be red listed. We really buckled down and worked on breeding. We kind of did some stock piling of the wild caughts.
When it was official, there wasn't a horse in the stores anywhere. No one was officially breeding them at that time, so there was no captive bred stock to sell. This is where the cardinals will differ, as they have programs already in place. The stores weren't carrying WCs, because no one was sure of the laws, at time.
People continued to breed them and some hobbyists turned into professional breeders. The majority of the seahorses you see in the stores today are captive bred. Every now and then you see some wild caughts, but I'm sure there is special paperwork with them.
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eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
Not necessarily true, consider the case of the Asian arowana. It received it's status in 2006, and even though globally there are CITES recognized farms, some of which microchip their fish, and can be shipped to most nations, the United States does not allow them to be shipped or owned for commercial or pet purposes. It cannot be owned at all in the U.S.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Haven't Banggai's been on the list for some time now?
You're right in that you cannot predict exactly what rules will come into play and it may totally go down different than I predict. We do things that don't make sense sometimes. I just see a big difference in arowanas and the banggai, but I was comparing them to the seahorses, which also isn't a good comparison.
If you own a Banggai as a pet, they're not going to come to your house to collect it and you won't have to kill it. If you are selling Banggai, they are not your pet and you are engaging in business practices. Businesses will require permits.... lots and lots of paperwork. If you are selling these without being a business, you will be in trouble.
You're right in that you cannot predict exactly what rules will come into play and it may totally go down different than I predict. We do things that don't make sense sometimes. I just see a big difference in arowanas and the banggai, but I was comparing them to the seahorses, which also isn't a good comparison.
If you own a Banggai as a pet, they're not going to come to your house to collect it and you won't have to kill it. If you are selling Banggai, they are not your pet and you are engaging in business practices. Businesses will require permits.... lots and lots of paperwork. If you are selling these without being a business, you will be in trouble.
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
No, the status is this week, they had petitioned for this status from 2001-2004, and they came under review in 2014.
mrnewberry
Active Member
A good illustration of why we should be trying to propagate or breed everything we keep in this hobby.
The most recent article in Coral magazine says that the Bangai Cardinal fish is threatened but not yet endangered. If it does become endangered what happens to the fish in my tank?
What are your rocks supported on? It looks like they are floating.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
I believe that's the top of a "cave"/arch and the supporting structures are on either side.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
It took us this long? We've been taking wildcaughts all this time? Crickey!
"We" are trying, but hobbyists aren't supporting the efforts. Look at the mandarins. We didn't want to pay $15 dollars more for a captive bred, so there was no demand and the program stopped. That's an ugly spooge on us as responsible hobbyists.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
I was assuming we were talking about CITES. They were put on the ESA list. That's not the same as CITES. I really don't have a comment on how the ESA handles stuff.
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PatW
2500 Club Member
Well being an endangered species does not necessarily forbid breeding an animal for the pet trade. There are at least three endangered parrot species: the hyacinth macaw, the sun conure, and the double yellow headed Amazon that are popular in the US pet trade. I think all of the new birds have been captive bred for some time. Sun conures and double yellow heads are pretty readily available.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
The last time I contacted the FWS concerning hobbyists keeping a banned fish they basically said, "it's not you we're are interested in". I wouldn't mess with selling them unless you know what permits are required and if you meet the criteria. I was told we could leave our fish in our tanks for the rest of their lives, but could not sell or trade them. Breeding them required a different permit and was geared towards commercial, but no one was breeding what I was keeping anyway, so it was a moot point.
I would definitely wait to see what the rules were......
I would definitely wait to see what the rules were......
