So confused at what a sump does.

[gbru316]

About these hob overflows, I heard that there not super reliable and could spill water all over the floor if the power goes out. is this true and what has been your experience with these? @Jwise @Reefermatt

I've used them for years with no issue. Just don't buy one that relies on an external pump to maintain siphon.

 

[WheatToast]

I've used them for years with no issue. Just don't buy one that relies on an external pump to maintain siphon.

+1
My HOB Lifereef Prefilter overflow has never broken siphon during power outages.

 

[InactiveAcct]

About these hob overflows, I heard that there not super reliable and could spill water all over the floor if the power goes out. is this true and what has been your experience with these? @Jwise @Reefermatt

I’ve used them for 15 years. I had drama with the kind that uses a pump to maintain siphon (aqualifter) - yeah luckily reef-pi text me that it was about to hit the fan. The tubing kept hardening and/ or seals would go bad on the pump and siphon would break - when siphon breaks your return pump keeps filling tank but water doesn’t leave tank.

The kind that uses the bent U tubes are really reliable. Biggest mistake is under sizing or over sizing return pump. You don’t want the flow through the tube to be slow enough for bubbles to accumulate at the top, you want bubbles to whip right through the tube. Tiny bubbles accumulating turns into one big air pocket that will eventually get big enough to break siphon. Recommend getting a slightly oversized DC return pump and dialing it back to just below where it’s not returning water faster than the overflow can handle.

Also REALLY recommend at least a double drain, regardless of whether you use HOB or not. Improved reliability (I.e. snail crawling in and blocking it), but perhaps more importantly is very easy to silent via herbie or bean animal.
Sorry for information overload. It’s actually really easy and reliable, you just want to avoid pitfalls.
I use the PF-1000 and like it. I only use one tube so I can get more flow through it - I like faster flow through one tube than slower flow through two.

Aquarium Overflows

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Overflow Boxes and Drain Styles - Durso, Herbie, and Bean Animal

Decide which of the three most common types of drains and overflow boxes is right for you and your tank.

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Mackey]

also with any power outages I would be able to check on overflow very quickly no matter what time of day cause my grandma is on oxygen and it would be an emergency and everyone would know when power is off.

 

[G Santana]

What's in mine:
Filter socks
Skimmer
Float switch for ATO
Pump for UV
Scrubber light
Algae scrubber
Heaters
Doser hose holder
PH probe
ORP probe

This would otherwise take up a lot of real estate in my 130 gallon and distract from the display.

 

[InactiveAcct]

also with any power outages I would be able to check on overflow very quickly no matter what time of day cause my grandma is on oxygen and it would be an emergency and everyone would know when power is off.

Yes, being home adds reliability. Probably still want to set it up to not flood during a power outage and test once a month or so.

I like to keep the water level in the display low (adjust overflow box downward) so the tank has margin to accept water from sump if siphon breaks. Also keep plenty of volume in sump available to accept water from tank if return pump turns off.

Some of us with HOBs drill a hole in the return line a little higher than the water level so the siphon immediately breaks - also a monthly maintenance item to make sure that hole isn’t clogged. If you go that route make sure you drill it so it points to glass so it doesn’t make a lot of noise/ splashing.

 

[WVNed]

I’ve used them for 15 years. I had drama with the kind that uses a pump to maintain siphon (aqualifter) - yeah luckily reef-pi text me that it was about to hit the fan. The tubing kept hardening and/ or seals would go bad on the pump and siphon would break - when siphon breaks your return pump keeps filling tank but water doesn’t leave tank.

The kind that uses the bent U tubes are really reliable. Biggest mistake is under sizing or over sizing return pump. You don’t want the flow through the tube to be slow enough for bubbles to accumulate at the top, you want bubbles to whip right through the tube. Tiny bubbles accumulating turns into one big air pocket that will eventually get big enough to break siphon. Recommend getting a slightly oversized DC return pump and dialing it back to just below where it’s not returning water faster than the overflow can handle.

Also REALLY recommend at least a double drain, regardless of whether you use HOB or not. Improved reliability (I.e. snail crawling in and blocking it), but perhaps more importantly is very easy to silent via herbie or bean animal.
Sorry for information overload. It’s actually really easy and reliable, you just want to avoid pitfalls.
I use the PF-1000 and like it. I only use one tube so I can get more flow through it - I like faster flow through one tube than slower flow through two.

Aquarium Overflows

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Overflow Boxes and Drain Styles - Durso, Herbie, and Bean Animal

Decide which of the three most common types of drains and overflow boxes is right for you and your tank.

www.bulkreefsupply.com

this

Always get one with at least 2 drains

Get the water levels right so the water entering the front box doesnt make bubbles falling in. These can collect in the U tube and fail the siphon. Make sure the flow over the top is fast enough so they come out the other side.

 

[Mackey]

@WVNed thanks for advice! I was bout to get one with one drain. glad I heard that before making the jump.

 

[WVNed]

A sump does nothing. It is a place to give different pieces of equipment a way and a place to use the water in the system so you dont see them in the display tank.
All of mine are in a separate room.

 

[G Santana]

A sump does nothing. It is a place to give different pieces of equipment a way and a place to use the water in the system so you dont see them in the display tank.
All of mine are in a separate room.

That's SUMP CENTRAL!!!

 

[doubleshot00]

Yeah I remember trying to figure that out the first time. Maybe start simple and change it around later. All you need to get the sump going is the overflow drain(s) going in and the return going back up.

A sump going without any equipment is actually decent filtration - for one you get surface skimming as the water drains into the overflow, which is something that only specialized hang on back filters do.

Yeah i have a acrylic sump that i can’t figure out how to make it work and have a 29 gal with a ton of extra baffles that i need to silicone in but cant figure out how to set them and what the water level will be. It shouldn’t be this difficult. Very little info out there on sumps and how to adjust, design and make them correctly.

 

[Jwise]

I've used them on multiple tanks before and that hasn't happened to me yet and i live in florida so i defiantly know about the power outage issues lol . What they do is syphon any extra water that within thier combs but you fix that problem by putting the return about the same level or even a little lower than the combs on the overflow and drill a hole that's big enough to let air in to the return piping right at water level to break any syphon that would happen in a power outage. Also i check the u tubing on the overflows to make sure they don't stop syphoning and if you notice it just restart the syphon on the u tube that stopped and that will fix that problem i also suggest getting air tubbing for the overflow because it does have a tendency to make an annoying gargling noise so i would put it into the spot where the water drains on the outside and make sure it draws enough air kinda like making a snorkel for it to get air flow deeper within the piping. Reef builders has an article on it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

thank you so much for lengthy response, I'll be definitely using this as a reference.

To simplify, a sump is a unit that houses your filtration simplifying access for maintenance and purifying water before it goes back to the tank

 

[InactiveAcct]

Yeah i have a acrylic sump that i can’t figure out how to make it work and have a 29 gal with a ton of extra baffles that i need to silicone in but cant figure out how to set them and what the water level will be. It shouldn’t be this difficult. Very little info out there on sumps and how to adjust, design and make them correctly.

I hear ya. I don’t think there’s really a “correct” way, it’s mainly a game of optimizing:
- Fitting desired equipment and accessing it for maintenance
- Ease of cleaning the sump
-Avoiding light spillage for things like a f

Jake Adams from ReefBuilders mentioned that his favorite sump is a 40 gallon breeder with no baffles. I tend to agree - I have one baffle in mine and I hate it.

As far as adjusting goes, recommend first setting overflow to desired tank water height (some aren’t adjustable). After that adding or removing water will lower or increase the sump water level, but not the display. Evaporation will similarly cause the sump water level to fall, but not the main display. That’s why auto top off sensors are in the sump, when the sump water level falls below the sensor level the ATO fills it back up.

As far as how high to have water in sump, probably dictated first by having margin to avoid the sump drying out or having floods with power outages, etc. Secondly your skimmer likely operates at a preferred depth outlined in owners manual (unless it’s a recirculating skimmer like I have - which doesn’t care about tank depth but takes more space), so you’ll want to ensure its at right depth to get the most out of it.

 

[RocketEngineer]

The issue with a HoB overflow is the siphon tube. If air gets trapped in the siphon, it will block the flow from the tank while the return pump keeps adding water at the same rate. This mismatch can cause the display to overflow especially if an ATO is connected and keeps filling the pump chamber.

Now, some folks have run HoB overflows and never had issues. But to me, it wasn’t worth the risk which is why my last 3 setups were drilled (2 DIY).

 

[1ocean]

First I have to say there is so much equipment out there to choose from, just like everything in this world...so it is up to what the individual likes. For me I have experienced that hang on the back overflows, that required the tube to go up and over the tanks rim, were a good idea like in the 90"s but the problem was that some time the siphon would fail, and I had to keep restarting it. Now with the back, sides, or what ever you have drilled to put a bulk head is so much easier.

 

[Mackey]

The issue with a HoB overflow is the siphon tube. If air gets trapped in the siphon, it will block the flow from the tank while the return pump keeps adding water at the same rate. This mismatch can cause the display to overflow especially if an ATO is connected and keeps filling the pump chamber.

Now, some folks have run HoB overflows and never had issues. But to me, it wasn’t worth the risk which is why my last 3 setups were drilled (2 DIY).

Prob is DT is already filled. Not sure how to do drilling because of that. I really would prefer it tho.

 

[Mackey]

Looking at this, is a Cannister filter and skimmer a good option? how much better is a sump compared to these?

 

[Tamberav]

Yeah i have a acrylic sump that i can’t figure out how to make it work and have a 29 gal with a ton of extra baffles that i need to silicone in but cant figure out how to set them and what the water level will be. It shouldn’t be this difficult. Very little info out there on sumps and how to adjust, design and make them correctly.

you just silicone them in if it is a glass tank and use weld (for acrylic) if it is an acrylic tank with acrylic baffles.

As far as depth.. you basically want the baffle for the skimmer chamber the height of whatever water depth your skimmer manufacture requires.

 

[Tamberav]

Looking at this, is a Cannister filter and skimmer a good option? how much better is a sump compared to these?

Not comparable. A cannister filter is just like a hang on back that you have to open and clean and more work then a typical hang on back

A sump is large can can house more powerful skimmers then a HOB skimmer, a refugium, reactors, all your probes or heater, a place to dose, etc.