So I opened up my Apex...

[redddogg69]

Sorry for the late reply, had a beer with my techie friend. this is what he had to say in continuation of our first conversation.

"Printed logo on a PCB is not an indication of designing a device, layout or anything! The only thing it can mean for certain is who has paid for this PCB or PCBA!

In Electronics an “Off the shelf Solution” is referred to an existing design that can be used for a given purpose to become a part of a product or further modified to become a product.

All chip manufacturers offer chipsets, layout design and software in multiples of different variations to make the sales of their products easier. They are often called a “Development Pack”. A development pack can be redone and used as is to be included in a device to perform the functions it is designed to perform. Or it can be further modified or its design with the said chipset integrated on a new layout to create a new device based on that original “Off the shelf solution”. You can print your logo on any such devices. With these solution the engineer can decide to use any or all the capabilities of the platform based on the final product’s requirement. For example this chip has a 2D chrom interface than can be used in lieu of the TFT Control interface that the chip lacks. This means it can still have some basic 2D graphics but I am assuming that is not being used in this application.

Again I am just making an observation based on the pictures I saw. The point that drives me to be certain of this being a work around is that it makes no sense to develop 2 different communication protocols for such a simple device with very limited power, requirements and capability. A proprietary Wi-Fi module would not need a USB dongle and that alone makes the host’s claims false."

 

[slief]

Sorry for the late reply, had a beer with my techie friend. this is what he had to say in continuation of our first conversation.

"Printed logo on a PCB is not an indication of designing a device, layout or anything! The only thing it can mean for certain is who has paid for this PCB or PCBA!

In Electronics an “Off the shelf Solution” is referred to an existing design that can be used for a given purpose to become a part of a product or further modified to become a product.

All chip manufacturers offer chipsets, layout design and software in multiples of different variations to make the sales of their products easier. They are often called a “Development Pack”. A development pack can be redone and used as is to be included in a device to perform the functions it is designed to perform. Or it can be further modified or its design with the said chipset integrated on a new layout to create a new device based on that original “Off the shelf solution”. You can print your logo on any such devices. With these solution the engineer can decide to use any or all the capabilities of the platform based on the final product’s requirement. For example this chip has a 2D chrom interface than can be used in lieu of the TFT Control interface that the chip lacks. This means it can still have some basic 2D graphics but I am assuming that is not being used in this application.

Again I am just making an observation based on the pictures I saw. The point that drives me to be certain of this being a work around is that it makes no sense to develop 2 different communication protocols for such a simple device with very limited power, requirements and capability. A proprietary Wi-Fi module would not need a USB dongle and that alone makes the host’s claims false."

Different WiFi dongles require different drivers due to different chipsets. Proprietary can mean proprietary to this specific OS in that another Wifi dongle from a different manufacturer wouldn't necessarily work with the Apex's OS since the drivers for alternate dongles wouldn't be included in the Apex's custom OS. Having developed scaled down OS's for my own companies commercial products, I know plenty about custom OS builds and when it comes to flash based OS's, you eliminate the fat. Things like uneeded drivers are eliminated or not included when compiling the OS. Using a dongle in this case would have been a much better solution for example than using an onboard chip. If there were issues with Wifi during testing and development, using an onboard chip would have required new board designs. Using a USB dongle, especially during developing and testing would allow them to test different devices without having to modify the board. All it would require is a driver update and a dongle change. It also allows changes due to potential obsolescence without having to retool boards. Also, using an onboard chip would likely require the inclusion of an antenna in the packaging where a dongle can eliminate that need.

While it is true that a stamp on the board doesn't necessarily indicate a custom board, the various probe ports on the board and in the daughter card among other things are a clear indication of this being a very custom board design for this application alone. This is not by any means an off the shelf board. Without a double this design is proprietary to the Apex and designed to meet the needs and specs of this controller. I say this with the utmost in confidence. I am the founder of a computer manufacturer and have decades of experience with single board computers and embedded systems. We've done our share of PCB design as well for some of our embedded products. As such, I am quite confident in my conclusions. Either way, it's a moot point. Neptune has been developing controllers for decades and they are at the top of the totem pole and without a doubt a leader in their field. They aren't taking an RPi or other SBC and tossing an OS on it and calling it a day.

 

[redddogg69]

This is definitely not my strong suit. Thanks for the response Slief. I'm just trying to make heads and tails of all this back and forth here and on the other forum. Didn't want to stir up the pot over there again.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Neptune spent a lot of time and money developing their operating system. They also spend time and money maintaining and supporting it. They get money by selling hardware along with the operating system. Taking their operating system without paying them would be stealing.

If they have lawyers worth anything it is probably illegal. The operating system is probably a copyrighted work.

Having developed it gives Neptune the moral right, IMHO, to control its use.

That is being challenged in court as we speak. Used to be, if you bought it, it's yours. Then some how this law came about saying, if you bought, leave it alone.
https://www.***.org/press/releases/...-research-and-technology-restrictions-violate

 

[Ranjib]

Vast majority of these electronics are now available in the open, if you are hacking the hardware, then its lot safer to start with openhardware/opensource software and integrate them with reef quality instruments. To put other way, its realtively easier to use Pi + adafruit + sparkfun electronics with Kessil, mp10 etc. Ofcourse, you are on your own on the software side of it, and supporting it, but I am assuming this is given, once you end up hacking a product (you kinda void the warrenty).
my 2 cents