So I'm reconsidering my stance on controllers...

[ReefLEDLights]

KISS

I keep it simple...Anything critical is not tied to a single controller...

When My APEX failed it was to say the least a severe hassle. My LED lights needed to be "Jerry Rigged" so the corals have lights...This without a doubt added stress to the corals but they prevailed...

Now I have all Critical Components like Lights on their own separate controller...

Feeding and Dosing are still controlled by the APEX...I can live with a failure but Lights and Flow are separate so if one fails its not an issue as their is another independent Light and Pump behaving properly...

Bill

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Well after reading what is here and other places none of the controllers are perfect and people have had failures with them. If you have a failure of any kind with or without a controller while you are on vacation do you really want to know. I have no one near by that would be able to fix a problem. If I am away 5-6 hours by plane do I want my vacation ruined if the power goes out not much I can do while on vacation. Actually I would end up being tied to my phone but we turn off our phones for most of the day while on vacation as that is what a vacation is about, forgetting about everyday problems getting disconnected and only enjoying the moment. I believe in the theory if you do something major before going out of town you will have a problem. Get everything done early so you have 2-3 days to correct or fix things. Even with a controller what happens if your internet goes down then you have no monitoring and you hope it is not the power out and stress while away.

 

[Phil Cusimano]

Went out of town for an awesome weekend of highschool football state championships. Did a water change, made sure ato was filled, fed fish, everything I could do to ensure the tank and it's inhabitants would be good for a couple nights on their own. In the process of the water change the pumps and heater were turned off. Problem is the power to the heater was never turned back on. Tank had no he's for 2.5 days and dropped to below 60. I'm slowly bringing the temp up and hoping that it's not a total crash. Loses so far are a purple firefish, Hollywood stunner, birdsnest and maybe a green acro. My red cap is very pale so I'm not sure how it's going to fare, frogspawn is showing signs of shedding flesh on the skeletal base, cyphastrea is a little bleached, candy canes are producing a ton of mucous, and every zoa is closed and shriveled.

If a had a controller it would have warned me before we left or at the very least allowed me to have a friend check the issue. In this case it was something as simple as a cord not being completely plugged in...

Sick to my stomach

I loath hearing stories like this, sorry you lost some critters! I never like hearing follow hobbyist losing any livestock. FWIW & IMHO If you have the money I'd suggest getting a GHL Profilux 4 controller if you can afford it (it's expensive, but worth it) a lot of hobbyist on R2R have more experience with the Proiflux line then I'm still waiting for mine to arrival I decide to add it to my new 120g setup, my next choice would be the Apex, and finally the DA controller. Once again I'm sorry to hear about your livestock lose.

 

[PlanB]

Well after reading what is here and other places none of the controllers are perfect and people have had failures with them. If you have a failure of any kind with or without a controller while you are on vacation do you really want to know. I have no one near by that would be able to fix a problem. If I am away 5-6 hours by plane do I want my vacation ruined if the power goes out not much I can do while on vacation. Actually I would end up being tied to my phone but we turn off our phones for most of the day while on vacation as that is what a vacation is about, forgetting about everyday problems getting disconnected and only enjoying the moment. I believe in the theory if you do something major before going out of town you will have a problem. Get everything done early so you have 2-3 days to correct or fix things. Even with a controller what happens if your internet goes down then you have no monitoring and you hope it is not the power out and stress while away.

I think I understand your argument, but I don’t believe anybody is saying controllers should be relied on 100%. If power cuts out, you might want to purchase a battery backup to run your powerheads and heater. Controllers are just another tool in your toolbox to use, one that proves to give piece of mind to many reefers. I for one cannot stick my head in the sand and hope that nothing is wrong, this would not allow me to relax, just the opposite – it would make me nervous as crap. I do want to know! I believe most of us want to know, and for 95% of the time, if everything is set up with proper thought and redundancy, this piece of mind will only help you to relax on your vacation. As for being tied to your phone on vacation, it takes about 30 seconds twice a day to have this piece of mind. After that I can detach and enjoy my time away - and sleep like a baby.


As for the 5% of times when things go wrong, well, that’s life and I will just have to deal with it. And if it’s a matter of cutting a trip short to save a few $$, well… everything is relative. Some of us have 1000’s of dollars invested in livestock, so it may be worth it.


I fully agree with your theory of not doing any major changes (even minor ones) just before leaving town, to make changes early to allow for corrections - this is very good advice.


My 2 cents

 

[Breadman03]

Apex is good but it can't plug a heater into an outlet.

You wouldn't need to unplug it at all. Just switch it from auto to off, or even better, set a feed mode for your maintenance that allows you enough time to perform the task, then automatically resumes.

 

[Myka]

Went out of town for an awesome weekend of highschool football state championships. Did a water change, made sure ato was filled, fed fish, everything I could do to ensure the tank and it's inhabitants would be good for a couple nights on their own. In the process of the water change the pumps and heater were turned off. Problem is the power to the heater was never turned back on. Tank had no he's for 2.5 days and dropped to below 60.

Sorry for your losses. This is precisely the reason why I don't do anything to the tank within 24 hours of leaving it alone. The only I do to the tank in the last 24 hours is feed the fish, clean the skimmer cup (I don't turn it off to do this), and double check parameters (they've been tested within the last few days). I have a 1080p WiFi camera that I point at the tank, and I check it on it in the mornings and evenings. I leave the sump area open with the sump light on, and I put a digital thermometer where I can see it. I can see the levels in the dosing containers. I can even see if the filter pad is dirty. If something needs to be fixed I have reefer buddies standing by, and an electronic door lock so I just push a button on my phone and the house door will unlock and the alarm will turn off. Cost me $100 for the Wifi camera.

 

[d2mini]

when is jabeo gonna knock off apex and make one thats more affordable?

When enough idiots are willing to trust thousands of dollars in live stock to some chinese piece of junk.

 

[Sharvey103]

After several key losses myself, I have invested in a controller ever since. My 300DD has a new apex on it with a dedicated extender to my wireless network.

 

[kattz]

when is jabeo gonna knock off apex and make one thats more affordable?

There's an interesting article in Coral magazine that I think you should read. It has to do with the influx of cheap imported products and how they negatively affect the hobby. The last thing I would like to see is this company reproduce the Apex and make it "cheap". I will I will gladly pay up to a thousand bucks for a decent controller that does what I want it to do reliably time after time year after year. That's the type of stability that reef tanks deserve.

There's plenty of used reliable cheap Apex controllers out there in the market place. I'm sure you can pick up an entire system for about $250-400.

Or... you can purchase a new piece of imported jumk pretty cheaply and pay the cost later.

By the way, I don't mean to imply that everything from outside the US is junk. Far from it. However, there's too much copycat stuff out there that is trying to compete with high-end developed products from the US, Europe, Canada, Japan, and China that people have taken time, energy, and money to develop and they cost a little bit more and trying to make a cheap copy of it that doesn't last or puts out too much carbon or something else in your tank from something that's not made well. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for, and sometimes things really are too cheap to believe.

Additionally, I think I just wrote the longest paragraphical sentence in this entire thread. My English teacher would hate me.

 

[Idoc]

There's an interesting article in Coral magazine that I think you should read. It has to do with the influx of cheap imported products and how they negatively affect the hobby. The last thing I would like to see is this company reproduce the Apex and make it "cheap". I will I will gladly pay up to a thousand bucks for a decent controller that does what I want it to do reliably time after time year after year. That's the type of stability that reef tanks deserve.

There's plenty of used reliable cheap Apex controllers out there in the market place. I'm sure you can pick up an entire system for about $250-400.

Or... you can purchase a new piece of imported jumk pretty cheaply and pay the cost later.

By the way, I don't mean to imply that everything from outside the US is junk. Far from it. However, there's too much copycat stuff out there that is trying to compete with high-end developed products from the US, Europe, Canada, Japan, and China that people have taken time, energy, and money to develop and they cost a little bit more and trying to make a cheap copy of it that doesn't last or puts out too much carbon or something else in your tank from something that's not made well. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for, and sometimes things really are too cheap to believe.

Additionally, I think I just wrote the longest paragraphical sentence in this entire thread. My English teacher would hate me.

Yes...I think that is the longest sentence I have ever seen! Thank goodness for the commas, I would have run out of breath without them! lol

 

[SteadyC]

Sorry, it's just horrible when catastrophes happen. I have read a perspective before, and it might have been you, that there is a lack of trust of using computers/software to run your tank, and I understand the perspective. I work for a large software company, and bugs introduce risk, of some level.

However, even if you just take the first step to do monitoring and alerting and not automating any maintenance tasks, you are still way better off.

 

[n2585722]

If you want wireless it would be up to the new Apex or the Archon. I have the Archon and it has never had a wired connection hooked to it. I have been able to do everytimg using wifi including software updates.

As far as comparing one of the DA units to the Apex I would suggest it be the Archon. The RKE was released before the Apex and the RKL is a entry level controller. Good news is both of these systems can be upgraded by adding a Archon head unit. It just requires removing the old head unit, NET module and any RD1's before installing the Archon head unit.

 

[57buick]

I will not be in this hobby without the apex ever! It is indispensable. yes failures can happen but it usually alerts me. And it saves me so much hassle with maintenance doing automatic water changes, running and monitoring my calcium reactor, monitoring my skimmate bucket etc....

 

[Grizz717]

Lots of good reading and information guys/gals!

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

If your main concern is temperature control the Apex JR is the way to go. It is a good option for the cost. And there are plenty of ways to get it wireless. But if you want wireless out of the box I would go with the Apex 2016 (I personally have one after debating the DA Archon), but there is a very big price jump($250 v $800).

Through my own reading/research/experience one of the most prevalent issues in our hobby is how unreliable heaters are. They get stuck on and cook tanks and get stuck off and turn them into a frozen underwater tundra. I highly recommend getting some kind of controller and alarm system to pair with a heater.

I wish someone would start from scratch and redesign heaters for aquariums...maybe more like thankless water heaters maybe? Just a thought...

 

[Villano]

Sorry for your loss as well.
I had a beautiful set of Sultan Plecos at 6 inches each. They were always out eating in my 175 and absolutely killed me when they died. I had installed a Media filter that Fell Apart and pulled all the water out of the sump taking out the heater, pumps....
I run a Seneye monitor and it works well. You have to change the slide at 30 day intervals. It does temp, ph, nh3, nh4, 02 and par for lighting. I can access anywhere on my phone and I run a APC that supplies power to my Seneye and one small circulation pump in case we lose power and I am not at home.
The Seneye is great for monitoring but if you are looking to control lights, pumps than Apex would be better. Good luck

 

[sundog101]

I'm not a fan of controllers. Most people will disagree but that's fine. I bought a reefkeeper lite because I thought it would be really useful. Well I guess if your a computer engineer or something you could get the thing to work. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I absolutely dread trying reprogram anything on it. It took me probably 3 hours just to get my lights to turn on . Don't even ask about heaters and temp control. On another tank I bought a ranco temp controller and love it! On/off...simple

 

[n2585722]

I'm not a fan of controllers. Most people will disagree but that's fine. I bought a reefkeeper lite because I thought it would be really useful. Well I guess if your a computer engineer or something you could get the thing to work. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I absolutely dread trying reprogram anything on it. It took me probably 3 hours just to get my lights to turn on . Don't even ask about heaters and temp control. On another tank I bought a ranco temp controller and love it! On/off...simple

If you need help with programming the RKL let me know.

 

[sundog101]

If you need help with programming the RKL let me know.

Thanks! I've got it set now but if I have problems I'll let you know.
Don't get me wrong controllers are great if your good with tech stuff. I guess you could say I'm deficient in that area haha.