So Many Commercial Options I'm LOST!

[marine_science_addict]

Hey guys.

I have recently been trying to focus on my tank and bring it back to life. We always had coral both stony and soft, and we would just toss in some Ca and Alk here and there. Keep in mind we didn't know exactly what we were doing. Now that we have more cash income, we are wanting to go about this the right way. Currently we are dosing with B-Ionic Mag, Ca, and Alk solutions. We use a turkey bastor to measure and we use the generic test kits. Our parameters are alright. We have been testing and dosing every single day for 2 weeks now. I have a 120 Gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump. The total water content is between 70 - 80 gallons. We use custom-made LED lighting purchased second hand which I realize now sucks because I do not know the output of these lights.

ANYWAS!

I have been trying to do some research and comparing between different brands and solutions. Right now I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which I love and it's for targeted coral growth. But is there REALLY a difference between the B-Ionic Ca, Alk, and Mg vs. Red Sea's products? What about the generic test kits vs. Red Sea? Is someone else better? I want to try and give my tank everything it deserves. Right now, manual options are the only think in my budget. I hope to one day get a dosing system. So for now, please just give me advice on solutions and test kits. I am working my way up the ladder here so for now I am focusing on the foundation elements. Ca, Ba, Sr, Mg, and Carbonates.

I really appreciate ANY advice!

 

[DaveMorris]

A couple things that I would suggest both for ease of use as well as cost. First, I would start your dosing with BRS additives. Using the straight chemicals, i.e. Calcium Chloride, Soda Ash, and Magnesium Chloride/Sulfate is cheaper than the branded products and BRS has them packaged in 1gal packets so it is simple to mix up. They also have a great calculator on their website so you know exactly how much you need to be dosing to hit the levels that you want. Second, I would use either Salifert or Elos test kits. They cost more, but they are very easy to use and very accurate.

 

[KoleTang]

I have a 120 Gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump. The total water content is between 70 - 80 gallons.

We use custom-made LED lighting purchased second hand which I realize now sucks because I do not know the output of these lights.

Post some pics, it might not suck.

I have been trying to do some research and comparing between different brands and solutions. Right now I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which I love and it's for targeted coral growth. But is there REALLY a difference between the B-Ionic Ca, Alk, and Mg vs. Red Sea's products?

Nope. Most people use Bulk Reef Supply's products (because they are cheaper), or they make make their own supplements: An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

What about the generic test kits vs. Red Sea? Is someone else better?

Yes, Red Sea and Salifert are better than API and such. They are more accurate and many times easier to use. Red Sea has a nice titration attachment that makes adding the reagent easier.

I want to try and give my tank everything it deserves. Right now, manual options are the only think in my budget. I hope to one day get a dosing system. So for now, please just give me advice on solutions and test kits. I am working my way up the ladder here so for now I am focusing on the foundation elements. Ca, Ba, Sr, Mg, and Carbonates.

I wouldn't consider Ba and Sr to be traditionally considered foundation elements. They can be beneficial, but it's more important to have the Ca, Alk, and Mg in the right place. If it is too difficult to manage them all at once, then stick with Ca, Alk, and Mg for now and add those later.

Read some of Randy's articles for more info on reef chemistry: Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[marine_science_addict]

I was looking into the BRS stuff but I wasn't sure of how good it was or if it even mattered! H2O is H2O you know? Mg is Mg. How is one better than the other! I looked it up and Salifert is what I am currently using.

 

[marine_science_addict]

I totally already printed out the water parameters article and put it in my binder. I started to get overwhelmed with information! I will try and find a good picture of my lights. Right now all I am focused on is the Ca, Alk, and Mg. I will continue to focus on those three for now. Is daily dosing needed? Or is weekly better? Should I dose daily and test weekly? How do I figure out the daily dose? Or is this where that calculator would come in hand? We also just bought an RO/DI system and so far I am loving the difference in the overall water quality!

 

[marine_science_addict]

Post some pics, it might not suck.

I am away from home and this is the best. When my husband gets home I'm have him send me pictures.

 

[hart24601]

Don't get overwhelmed! Lots of us like BRS because they are not expensive and the say directly what is in their products when many of the large manufacturers try and jazz their products up with confusing terms and marketing.

Until you have a decent number of stony corals you wont have to worry much about the big 3, calcium, alk, and magnesium. You will be able to keep the levels good with just weekly water changes. Since you already have some stony coral I would just test calcium and alk every couple of days for a week and see what demand the tank has. Be sure to not add anything while doing this! You just want to get a baseline of what the tank consumes per day and it's better to look at a few days and average them.

At some point you won't be able to keep up with the consumption as the corals grow. Then daily dosing is best to avoid large alk swings. But start with testing and seeing how much the tank is using. You might be able to get by with waterchanges only for a while.

 

[marine_science_addict]

Ok guys I am LOVING this advice!
If you check out this picture, it gives you an idea of how young/mature our tank is. Yeah we plowed through our test kit for Ca in 2 weeks! I think my husband kept messing up and didn't wanna admit to it. But thanks to amazon prime I have another one on the way!

https://instagram.com/p/0EZB-OEtHs/?taken-by=bbetancourt30

 

[hart24601]

Ok guys I am LOVING this advice!
If you check out this picture, it gives you an idea of how young/mature our tank is. Yeah we plowed through our test kit for Ca in 2 weeks! I think my husband kept messing up and didn't wanna admit to it. But thanks to amazon prime I have another one on the way!

https://instagram.com/p/0EZB-OEtHs/?taken-by=bbetancourt30

Haha, nice. Amazon prime is pretty sweet! I say just relax, like I said above test ca and mg once a day at most for the next few days with no additions and go from there! No need to get worried about a bunch of stuff you might not need for a while. Eventually when you know what the tank consumes you replace that same amount daily. Just simple calcium and alk for a long time as magnesium doesn't get used up that fast. Don't get too flustered with all the products out there, we like to keep it simple!

 

[marine_science_addict]

Haha, nice. Amazon prime is pretty sweet! I say just relax, like I said above test ca and mg once a day at most for the next few days with no additions and go from there! No need to get worried about a bunch of stuff you might not need for a while. Eventually when you know what the tank consumes you replace that same amount daily. Just simple calcium and alk for a long time as magnesium doesn't get used up that fast. Don't get too flustered with all the products out there, we like to keep it simple!

Simple is what I want! I will take the offered advice. I have another question. As you can see my tank in the above pictures. I feed Oyster feast and phytofeast once a day 1 tsp each and reef feul 2 times a week (like 10ml). Does my tank need that much? Could this be making my GHA go ape ****? How do I figure out for much to "feed" my reef?

 

[marine_science_addict]

Don't get overwhelmed! Lots of us like BRS because they are not expensive and the say directly what is in their products when many of the large manufacturers try and jazz their products up with confusing terms and marketing.

Could you tell me if I am reading this right? I am on the BRS website and I'm slightly confused but I think I might understand.

This would be my first purchase: BRS 2 Part Calcium & Alkalinity Total Package - Bulk - Bulk Reef Supply (I already have 1 gal mag that will take forever to go through).

Then I buy these to replace it: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-2-part-calcium-alkalinity-kit-pre-portioned.html

If that is the case then I agree about how cheap it is to keep doing it! Holy crap!

 

[hart24601]

I can't see everything in there very well, but unless you have lots of filter feeders I wouldn't feed that much phytofeast or oyster feast unless there are a lot of SPS. I would feed that once per week personally and I would dial back the fuel if you are having GHA issues, are you having a lot of GHA?

The feeding thing is tough, but for most things you only need to feed the fish a bit, the coral and survive off the light until you get things dialed in a bit better. Can you list the coral that is in there and the fish?

 

[hart24601]

Could you tell me if I am reading this right? I am on the BRS website and I'm slightly confused but I think I might understand.

This would be my first purchase: BRS 2 Part Calcium & Alkalinity Total Package - Bulk - Bulk Reef Supply (I already have 1 gal mag that will take forever to go through).

Then I buy these to replace it: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-2-part-calcium-alkalinity-kit-pre-portioned.html

If that is the case then I agree about how cheap it is to keep doing it! Holy crap!

Yep that is what you want for ca and alk. Once you figure out how much the tank is using they have a calculator that says how much to dose a day.

 

[marine_science_addict]

Husband says, based on calculations and the previous daily dosing, our tank uses 200 ppm Ca/day

 

[hart24601]

That is a bonkers amount. No way the tank is consuming 200ppm per day. 20ppm of calcium per day a pretty good amount and would be around a 1dkh alk drop per day which is what many tanks consume. Super heavy SPS or clam tanks might get up around 4dkh/day which is around 80ppm.

Try looking at how much alk the tank uses per day. That is easier to test and more accurate. The tank should consume alk and calcium in a pretty balanced amount of 20ppm Ca to 1dkh alk.

If the tank is really dropping 200ppm then it's precipitating out and not really being used which is why it's important when looking at the daily drop to not be adding anything so you get a real baseline.

 

[marine_science_addict]

I can't see everything in there very well, but unless you have lots of filter feeders I wouldn't feed that much phytofeast or oyster feast unless there are a lot of SPS. I would feed that once per week personally and I would dial back the fuel if you are having GHA issues, are you having a lot of GHA?

It is popping up again and I am noticing it growing more and more! *que horror music* I thought it was a lot for the tank.

The feeding thing is tough, but for most things you only need to feed the fish a bit, the coral and survive off the light until you get things dialed in a bit better. Can you list the coral that is in there and the fish?

Inverts: Tube nem, Maxi Mini, Peppermint Shrimp (3), Harlequin Shrimp, scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, Turbos (5), Hermits (5-8), Other small snails (5) *I feel like I need a bigger cleaning crew*

Verts: Blue Tang, Diamond Watchman Goby, Green Mandarin Dragonet, and Yellow Tang

Corals: Leather (softball size) , Goni Pora (small frag), Monti Pora (Size of tea cup saucer), Daisy Polyps (4 heads), Clove polyp (3 heads), Blasto (3 heads), Buble coral (smaller than gold ball), Green Star Polyp (Enough to cover your palm), Xenia (like a ****; 12in long 8 in high? It's in the pic), Zoas maybe 500 heads? I have small frag rastas, small frag blue tub, small frag pink zippers, good size colony eagle eye, med size frag green bay packers, 3 heads white ones, some other random ones), Some other polyp like GSP and Xenia put together (small colony), 3 Kenya trees, small hammer, small torch, few mushroom.

 

[marine_science_addict]

That is a bonkers amount. No way the tank is consuming 200ppm per day.

Now he is not sure if that was Mg or something else so disregard that. I'll check when I get home.

If the tank is really dropping 200ppm then it's precipitating out and not really being used which is why it's important when looking at the daily drop to not be adding anything so you get a real baseline.

Is this done by testing daily, getting a reading, not adding any Ca, Alk, or Mg and averaging the daily drop?

 

[hart24601]

It is popping up again and I am noticing it growing more and more! *que horror music* I thought it was a lot for the tank.



Inverts: Tube nem, Maxi Mini, Peppermint Shrimp (3), Harlequin Shrimp, scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, Turbos (5), Hermits (5-8), Other small snails (5) *I feel like I need a bigger cleaning crew*

Verts: Blue Tang, Diamond Watchman Goby, Green Mandarin Dragonet, and Yellow Tang

Corals: Leather (softball size) , Goni Pora (small frag), Monti Pora (Size of tea cup saucer), Daisy Polyps (4 heads), Clove polyp (3 heads), Blasto (3 heads), Buble coral (smaller than gold ball), Green Star Polyp (Enough to cover your palm), Xenia (like a ****; 12in long 8 in high? It's in the pic), Zoas maybe 500 heads? I have small frag rastas, small frag blue tub, small frag pink zippers, good size colony eagle eye, med size frag green bay packers, 3 heads white ones, some other random ones), Some other polyp like GSP and Xenia put together (small colony), 3 Kenya trees, small hammer, small torch, few mushroom.

I like mixed reefs! Sounds like the only stony coral are the small goni, tea cup monti, blasto, small bubble and small hammer and torch. I wouldn't expect the calcium and alk to drop very much every day with that current load. Coraline algae might be consuming some too, but not all that much IMO.

You are on the right track, just stop adding anything that boosts calcium or alk or Mg and hold off of waterchanges during this period. Test the tank, repeat a few days later. Divide the drop by the number of days to see the daily drop! You can test everyday too, but the daily drop might be too little for the test kit to measure with any accuracy. Then you can use the calculator on BRS site to see what you need to dose if anything! You may find that waterchanges take care of it.

 

[marine_science_addict]

I like mixed reefs! Sounds like the only stony coral are the small goni, tea cup monti, blasto, small bubble and small hammer and torch. I wouldn't expect the calcium and alk to drop very much every day with that current load. Coraline algae might be consuming some too, but not all that much IMO.

We do get Coraline a lot and have to scrape the tank a lot. Is this due to too much Ca? Are you not supposed to have a lot?

 

[hart24601]

It's no problem! Some like it and some don't, doesn't mean too much Ca or anything like that. Some tanks grow it more than others, depends on the lighting intensity and if anything is eating it. So no worries there. It can use a decent amount of Ca and alk. But once you figure out the daily drop we will know for sure.