So, what's the next step?

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

Okay, so tank will have live rock in it for two weeks on Saturday. I've been running my Kessils on the lowest power 3-4 hours per night in an attempt to preserve some of the native corals that came on the live rock. A nice colony was doing very well and was exhibiting good polyp extension until I got home last night. Now, it looks as if the tissue has receded some, and it is definitely not happy.

Here are current parameters:
Temp 79-80°F
SG 1.025-1.026
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 40
Ca 400-420 ppm
dKH 10-11
PO4 0.25

I'm thinking maybe the nitrates are too high? I have added some Chaetomorpha to the sump on a 16-20 hr/day light schedule hoping it would start to reduce the nitrates, but I have yet to see an improvement. I'm considering a water change to get the nitrates down. I have been feeding the NPS corals a bit as well as the hermit crabs since there are no fish in the tank. Thoughts?

Also, I forgot to mention that I have a pad of something growing on the same rock in the tank. It kind of looks like cyanobacteria, but it's brown and not red. I'm going to try to remove it tonight with a toothbrush before it goes crazy on me.

brandon429 · Dec 9, 2015

need pics to tell, they reveal so many other details we use to piece together events, so far sounds like good rock base to start with

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

Yeah, I've been really busy the last couple of nights, so I haven't had much time to take pics. The Halimeda and other macroalgae are recovering nicely in color and with new buds/sprouts. I did have one Astraea snail last night that wasn't looking too good, but the other Astraea and turbo snails seemed to be doing fine.

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

Double post. ugh.

brandon429 · Dec 9, 2015

sight unseen if I had any stressed lps losing mass after having had some, id lower the lights and increase feed injections right into it for 2 mos sustained then reevaluate.

any chance in too bring of an LED area in the tank

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

It's possible that the Kessil is too bright even on the lowest setting. The weird this is that just a day or two ago the coral was looking really good with the light on the lowest setting.

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

By the way, the coral looks more like an SPS than LPS.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 9, 2015

It can be difficult to get corals that are on curing live rock to survive, and I would not assume that the problem has anything to do with your tank water parameters, as opposed to the huge stresses in the live rock collection, curing and transportation.

FWIW, I have some tiny SPS survive on the Florida wild live rock that I got 20 years ago, but larger corals often do not survive.

That all said, it is a fine plan to reduce nitrate, either by water change (not usually the best option, but in a new tank after cycling it can be) or by any of many other methods. I'd look to reduce phosphate too.

I discuss them here:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium

Phosphate In The Reef Aquarium
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/?p=3184 http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

brandon429 · Dec 9, 2015

also, tissue recession leaving a white base would be my visual cue concern, not based on polyps out or in. they could be coming out at night when things are dark, accessing feeds, and doing fine being not out in the day, its fun to see how many clues can be traced sight unseen in reefing just as a fun trial. the number one thing they got in the wild vs what they get now in tank is variety and availability of heterotrophic feed, if they can be saved at all spot injections sustained two mos then reevaluate is handy.

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

Thanks, Randy. I had actually already read the nitrate article, and I've added some Chaetomorpha to the sump. The Halimeda is also making a comeback, so I'm hoping those two help reduce the nitrate and phosphate. Other than a water change, the only thing I could do is dose carbon. Is it too soon to start vodka or vinegar dosing?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 9, 2015

AllSignsPointToFIsh said:
Thanks, Randy. I had actually already read the nitrate article, and I've added some Chaetomorpha to the sump. The Halimeda is also making a comeback, so I'm hoping those two help reduce the nitrate and phosphate. Other than a water change, the only thing I could do is dose carbon. Is it too soon to start vodka or vinegar dosing?

I'd wait on the organic carbon.

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

So, I'm hardly feeding anything, skimming my behind off, and trying to actively grow macroalgae. Aside of nitrate removal products, the only thing left that I can do to lower nitrates is water changes, right?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 9, 2015

AllSignsPointToFIsh said:
So, I'm hardly feeding anything, skimming my behind off, and trying to actively grow macroalgae. Aside of nitrate removal products, the only thing left that I can do to lower nitrates is water changes, right?

There are lots of other options (carbon and sulfur denitrators, denitrifying media, etc.), but I'd probably go with those for a while and see how you do.

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 9, 2015

Clearly coming in late, but the tank has only been running for two weeks?
All live rock and sand?
It seems a bit ambitious to expect corals to survive an in tank cycle. Even on tank to tank transfer there can be die off and detritus stirring that can affect the corals. Esp if they are already stressed.
Not knowing but if it was shipped live rock and was dipped your having die off inside the rock.
Do what your doing. Perhaps some prime. Natural seawater if you have access to it. But time is going to be the key.

brandon429 · Dec 9, 2015

and I read hardly feeding anything as another direct cause as well if its not a cycling issue, cant wait for pics!

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

I wasn't expecting the coral to survive but rather hoping it would. It came attached to the aquacultured gulf live rock.

The NPS and smaller colonies of stony corals seem to be coping.

AllSignsPointToFish · Dec 9, 2015

Brandon,
I have some pictures on the build thread located here :

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-125g-buildout.216366/page-4#post-2571777

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 9, 2015

I read back throug your posts. I really have to say slow down. Everything you are experiencing is completely normal.
The technique you used could have been more refined IMO. That's ok. A lot could be said for most of mine.
Sand and water should have been first. Ghost feeding small amounts adding bacterial supplements. To the already cycling sand Add live rock.
With all the awesome life you got on there it clogged/ overloaded the current bio filter.

"Mini cycle" I hate that term. It's wrong.
It is cycling or it is not
period. Read Brandon's work.
Live sand is cycling. Live rock is cycling. Dead sand is not.dead Rock is not.
What is a mini cycle?
By adding such beautiful live rock to the tank it overload the bio filter and your seeing the results. It is ok.
I recommended natural seawater as it contains bacteria. Your correct on that. But only time will help right now. Water change opinions vary. Taking water out reduces stuff but also reduces the bacteria you want too.
Do what your doing limit lighting ( the Chato and macros were brilliant slowly increase lighting over a week.
Clean up big crud. You will have die off

It's hard to understand but you are not having any problems. It's just nature taking its course.
It's also a downer but your tank is going to look great! In three months. And you tank will have a pretty fully established cycle much sooner than than the guys dosing ammonia and peeing in the tank.
Style points!

We want pics. I want to see that awesome rock you got. It sounds like that should have gone into a more established tank. Bummer it's marketed that way I would not have wanted to lose any of what came in on it.

With care and regards
Jedi reefer.

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 9, 2015

AllSignsPointToFIsh said:
Brandon,
I have some pictures on the build thread located here :

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-125g-buildout.216366/page-4#post-2571777

I was wrong it's going to look great in thee weeks.

saltyfilmfolks · Dec 9, 2015

AllSignsPointToFIsh said:
I wasn't expecting the coral to survive but rather hoping it would. It came attached to the aquacultured gulf live rock.

The NPS and smaller colonies of stony corals seem to be coping.

I really hope it does. Probably will the end of the week may surprise you.