Social Structure of Large Angels

[Zionas]

Just had another look through Kuiter and Scott W. Michael’s books. From what I’ve gathered the Pomacanthus (including Euxiphipops) are pair forming.
Chaetodontoplus is where it gets a bit unclear from what I’ve gathered, many species according both authors “adults usually form pairs” but some are suspected to be haremic, but for C. Septentrionalis Scott W. Michael says “usually found singly or in pairs, occasionally in trios” (something like that).
Holacanthus to my knowledge only form pairs.
Genicanthus seem to be equally likely to bond in pairs or harems.
As for Centropyge / Paracentropyge I have seen people keep them in both pairs and harems but not sure what’s more natural for them in the wild.

Forgot Pygoplites. Kuiter says “adults in pairs and occasionally in small groups.” Michael says the typical social structure for adults is 1 male with 2-4 females although pairs are very common too.

 

[LaloJ]

Would you expect 1’ in captivity though?

I doubt it very much, I think it may be possible in a fairly large tank.

 

[LaloJ]

I have seen photos of Pygoplites in pairs but never more individuals, if so then I don't remember. By the way, I have not been able to acquire Scott Michael's book, do you know if I can obtain it in PDF?

 

[Zionas]

I do not believe there is a PDF version. However, I think you can still buy paper copies online. I do have a larger book from him on “Reef Fishes” (covers families like Anthias, Basslets, and some predator fish) if you are interested. I also have Volume 1 and Volume 2 of Allen and Steene’s books on Angelfish and Butterflyfish (very old, published maybe 30 years ago) if you are interested.

Yeah I don’t think I have seen photos of Pygoplites in more than a pair either.

 

[Zionas]

I see. What would you expect to be a reasonable maximum size in most tanks?

 

[alton]

it took me a while to find some older pictures of my first regals to show how slow they can grow. I have had other juveniles grow so fast I had to sell them to friends in less than a year. The first was a redsea misbar juvenile from NYAquatics
The second was a redsea I got from my local store I think (too long ago)


The two together after 3 1/2 years

I lost both due to adding a fish I did not QT long enough. Most of their years where spent in a 300 DD

 

[jdiefenbaugh]

I see. What would you expect to be a reasonable maximum size in most tanks?

6" most likely with P. navarchus. I've kept several large angels in tanks up to 10k gallons, and haven't seen that fish get much bigger than that. I know there's at least 1 documented case of ~60 years in captivity with P. sextriatus, so it's also likely a matter of age, and sex, with males usually being considerably bigger IIRC.

 

[LaloJ]

I do not believe there is a PDF version. However, I think you can still buy paper copies online. I do have a larger book from him on “Reef Fishes” (covers families like Anthias, Basslets, and some predator fish) if you are interested. I also have Volume 1 and Volume 2 of Allen and Steene’s books on Angelfish and Butterflyfish (very old, published maybe 30 years ago) if you are interested.

Yeah I don’t think I have seen photos of Pygoplites in more than a pair either.

Do you have that Allen book in PDF? I doubt enough to find it physically, I think I can still buy Scott Michael's book if I look for a couple of contacts here in Mexico, since I only have the book by Kiyoshi endoh and the book by Kuiter, Debelius and Tanaka.

 

[Zionas]

Unfortunately no, the Allen books are also paper copies. However, if you really want them I’ll send them to you.

The reason for no PDF copies is because the books themselves are so old.