Solving my chrysophytes issue one and for all

[bobssecrtsn]

Well a week of heavy h202 dosing and no real effect, again I do not have it really bad just pops up in several places and gets worse the longer I let it go. I can siphon it out and its back in a couple days, so I do not think h202 really does much for chrysophytes at least the ones that I have. Next up is vibrant, dose 1ml per 10g tonight, and yes I understand what is in it based on all the work @taricha did but I have read a couple of threads where it did possible have an effect. Not sure what kind of dosage @ScottB did and how often but my initial thought was to go weekly after water change and see if it has a different outcome. Trying to pull one lever at a time, so I am not doing to many things at once. I have a bunch of Halimeda macro algae and some feather caulpera in my sump, so I am hoping it doesn't kill all of my macro's but I guess we will see. I have pretty low nutrients, 8ppm Nitrate and .05 Po4 so I will have to keep an eye on them and dose to keep them where they are.....

I am trying marine algaefix. Taricha mentioned it is very effective. So I’m trying it today. Will report back here

 

[Troylee]

Well a week of heavy h202 dosing and no real effect, again I do not have it really bad just pops up in several places and gets worse the longer I let it go. I can siphon it out and its back in a couple days, so I do not think h202 really does much for chrysophytes at least the ones that I have. Next up is vibrant, dose 1ml per 10g tonight, and yes I understand what is in it based on all the work @taricha did but I have read a couple of threads where it did possible have an effect. Not sure what kind of dosage @ScottB did and how often but my initial thought was to go weekly after water change and see if it has a different outcome. Trying to pull one lever at a time, so I am not doing to many things at once. I have a bunch of Halimeda macro algae and some feather caulpera in my sump, so I am hoping it doesn't kill all of my macro's but I guess we will see. I have pretty low nutrients, 8ppm Nitrate and .05 Po4 so I will have to keep an eye on them and dose to keep them where they are.....

Dang it! Was hoping that was gonna be the ticket for you!

 

[taricha]

Next up is vibrant, dose 1ml per 10g tonight, and yes I understand what is in it based on all the work @taricha did but I have read a couple of threads where it did possible have an effect. Not sure what kind of dosage @ScottB did and how often but my initial thought was to go weekly after water change and see if it has a different outcome.

I am trying marine algaefix. Taricha mentioned it is very effective. So I’m trying it today. Will report back here

I know y'all know this and I'm beating a dead horse, but just to be clear for anybody reading, the whole point of the thread was that these are the same.

So you can just proceed with Algaefix (marine, fresh, pond all the same) . There's no need to pay 2x as much for gourmet black bottle algaefix from a company who still refuses (I checked their site today) to acknowledge what their actual algaecide ingredient is.

 

[bishoptf]

I know y'all know this and I'm beating a dead horse, but just to be clear for anybody reading, the whole point of the thread was that these are the same.

So you can just proceed with Algaefix (marine, fresh, pond all the same) . There's no need to pay 2x as much for gourmet black bottle algaefix from a company who still refuses (I checked their site today) to acknowledge what their actual algaecide ingredient is.

Yup I read most of your thread...for me I already have a crappy bottle of Vibrant laying around, no worries I will not purchase anything else from UWC but going to use what I have on hand...

 

[bishoptf]

I know y'all know this and I'm beating a dead horse, but just to be clear for anybody reading, the whole point of the thread was that these are the same.

So you can just proceed with Algaefix (marine, fresh, pond all the same) . There's no need to pay 2x as much for gourmet black bottle algaefix from a company who still refuses (I checked their site today) to acknowledge what their actual algaecide ingredient is.

What I am contemplating is do I dose every three days or once a week after water change. @ScottB when you dosed do you remember what you did by chance?

 

[ScottB]

What I am contemplating is do I dose every three days or once a week after water change. @ScottB when you dosed do you remember what you did by chance?

IIRC, I dosed just according to the instructions once a week and it took maybe 3-4 doses. That is about the same time I added the one spot foxface.

Got my fingers crossed for ya!

 

[bishoptf]

Here is what I do not understand, I dosed vibrant a couple days ago, phosphate has been running .05 or there abouts and I tested tonight along with nitrate, phosphate is 0 and nitrate was 7.3, both with hanna checkers. My tank is pretty whack with phosphate but this was unexpected I was hoping it would increase my phosphate, lol. So i dosed phosphate and nitrate just to keep them elevated but I'd really like to figure out what is tanking my phosphate, just weird. Chrysophytes about the same after one dosage, I have some live mud that I am wanting to dose in the tank but trying to do one thing at a time....

 

[ScottB]

Here is what I do not understand, I dosed vibrant a couple days ago, phosphate has been running .05 or there abouts and I tested tonight along with nitrate, phosphate is 0 and nitrate was 7.3, both with hanna checkers. My tank is pretty whack with phosphate but this was unexpected I was hoping it would increase my phosphate, lol. So i dosed phosphate and nitrate just to keep them elevated but I'd really like to figure out what is tanking my phosphate, just weird. Chrysophytes about the same after one dosage, I have some live mud that I am wanting to dose in the tank but trying to do one thing at a time....

Funny coincidence, but I now have chrysos in my frag system refugium. Nothing visible in the display as the dozen tangs & fox face fish mow everything down. My frag usually has no trouble keeping some phosphate available as I chum that tank very hard. But my PO4 just hit zero too.

 

[bishoptf]

Funny coincidence, but I now have chrysos in my frag system refugium. Nothing visible in the display as the dozen tangs & fox face fish mow everything down. My frag usually has no trouble keeping some phosphate available as I chum that tank very hard. But my PO4 just hit zero too.

Bummer but you will get things in shape pretty quickly...

I am 2 years into this and I am starting to think that reefing is like voodoo magic, I see all these awesome tanks and think what the heck am I doing wrong, lol. I keep plugging along and hoping at some point things get to that easy stage, lol. I will say since dosing vibrant I haven't had to clean the glass and thats easily a every other day thing...so has had some effect..

 

[bishoptf]

Starting of week 2 and I can say so far anecdotal evidence that the ingredient in AlgaeFix/Vibrant (polymeric quaternary ammonium compound) seems to have made a dent in mine. Again I did not have massive amounts just small spots popping up and as the week went on after a WC would get a little worse. I did a week+ with h202 and saw no difference in control, but after just one week of AF I could notice a difference, could be coincidence but I had been seeing it for several weeks and I have not changed anything else. I did another dose after my WC this week 1ml/10g and I think if it stays the same through the week I am debating whether to do 1 more dose or maybe drop to 2 weeks and if I do not see anything in 2 weeks just leave it be...

I do have some cyano popping up but only in my sump, lots of flow in my BB tank so not really seeing anywhere else, not real sure what to change in sump to help with that but will see what options I have maybe add a small powerhead to add some additional flow but leaving it be for now. Just thought I would follow up and note what appears to have worked so far. Phosphate still getting absorb somewhere and I would like to figure that one out, not sure AF/Vibbrant would strip po4 but something in my system appears to be eating it, would like to figure that out also...

 

[taricha]

The algaefix chemical doesn't strip PO4.
It kills some things, causes others to stop growing, and has no effect on the growth of others.
Depending on how exactly it kills some stuff, and what is released by those cells, that process may result in PO4 dropping.
Some find it does drop PO4, others don't. Depends a lot on details.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

I will say algaefix is eliminating my chrysphate. On the other hand my sps has been getting TN. I can’t say if it’s the dosing or not. I stopped and did a 20% WC. And doing witchhazel treatment at this time.

 

[bishoptf]

The algaefix chemical doesn't strip PO4.
It kills some things, causes others to stop growing, and has no effect on the growth of others.
Depending on how exactly it kills some stuff, and what is released by those cells, that process may result in PO4 dropping.
Some find it does drop PO4, others don't. Depends a lot on details.

Yeah I dunno, my tank has been kind of whack, Nitrate seems to act normally but po4 is pretty odd. I have some halmedia and some GHA but not enough to go through the PO4 like it does, wish I could figure it out since I think its the last piece to the puzzle. The other odd thing is my tank seems to have brown algae, the algaefix seems to have an effect on it but wish I could figure that out also. It's not diatoms but not really clear what it is, before algaefix I would have to clean the glass every other day would have a light coating, algaefix pretty much eliminated that along with the chryso's for the most part that I can see. There are just so many things at play in our tanks and we do not have a good baseline of bacteria that makes up the good tanks, hoping we are making progress with stuff like @AquaBiomics that we can start to figure out what really makes some successful and others to struggle..

 

[bishoptf]

Hoping @taricha or @ScottB or someone can answer this, I have been using Vibrant and it seems to have done the trick but the one question that I have is does Vibrant contain a carbon source vs Algaefix? One thing I really hate with Vibrant is it messes with my nitrate levels, I dose to keep them in range but its a pain. Does Algaefix have any carbon source, I know some want to reduce nitrates etc, but mine run pretty low in the 5-10 range, but dosing vibrant will tank it so was wondering if Algaefix just had the algae chemical WITHOUT the vinegar etc...Somehow I over dosed nitrate and now its 20ppm, ugh...

 

[ScottB]

Hoping @taricha or @ScottB or someone can answer this, I have been using Vibrant and it seems to have done the trick but the one question that I have is does Vibrant contain a carbon source vs Algaefix? One thing I really hate with Vibrant is it messes with my nitrate levels, I dose to keep them in range but its a pain. Does Algaefix have any carbon source, I know some want to reduce nitrates etc, but mine run pretty low in the 5-10 range, but dosing vibrant will tank it so was wondering if Algaefix just had the algae chemical WITHOUT the vinegar etc...Somehow I over dosed nitrate and now its 20ppm, ugh...

I wanna say that @taricha study on the contents (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/u...gaefix-polixetonium-chloride-busan-77.893292/) revealed a lack of detectable carbon sources but I could be wrong on that.

Sorry, I don't have an explanation as to WHY Vibrant lowered your nitrates, but I seem to recall the same nitrate reducing reaction in my tank.

Anyway, glad to hear it seems to be working against the chrysos.

 

[bishoptf]

I wanna say that @taricha study on the contents (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/u...gaefix-polixetonium-chloride-busan-77.893292/) revealed a lack of detectable carbon sources but I could be wrong on that.

Sorry, I don't have an explanation as to WHY Vibrant lowered your nitrates, but I seem to recall the same nitrate reducing reaction in my tank.

Anyway, glad to hear it seems to be working against the chrysos.

Thanks, it's noticeable at least in my tank, I was just curious if Algaefix had the same effect.

 

[taricha]

I have been using Vibrant and it seems to have done the trick but the one question that I have is does Vibrant contain a carbon source vs Algaefix? One thing I really hate with Vibrant is it messes with my nitrate levels, I dose to keep them in range but its a pain. Does Algaefix have any carbon source, I know some want to reduce nitrates etc, but mine run pretty low in the 5-10 range, but dosing vibrant will tank it so was wondering if Algaefix just had the algae chemical WITHOUT the vinegar etc...Somehow I over dosed nitrate and now its 20ppm, ugh...

Yeah, like @ScottB said, Vibrant had a lack of detectable anything that wasn't in Algaefix. No carbon sources, etc. It's not like it had the algaefix ingredients + some special stuff.
To understand the complexity of nutrients moving around with using algaefix etc, think about making a bunch of algae cells suddenly leaky. So what exactly gets released? sugars, amino acids, etc hard to say. (there's a paper on algae getting exposed to these polymers ending up releasing higher levels of dissolved free amino acids)
Depends on what organisms are in the tank, which ones are more and less affected by the algaecide, and what their condition is - how much stored goodies are in their cells?
So now that stuff gets released - bacteria gobble it up, and depending on the details of what's released - this may basically look to bacteria like a carbon dose resulting in lower measurable PO4 , NO3 etc.

Dan exposed some algae containers he grew to the algaecide and tracked PO4. in some it stayed the same, in some it went down, in others it went up a bit. The details of what it hits and how hard matters a lot, it would seem.

 

[bishoptf]

Yeah, like @ScottB said, Vibrant had a lack of detectable anything that wasn't in Algaefix. No carbon sources, etc. It's not like it had the algaefix ingredients + some special stuff.
To understand the complexity of nutrients moving around with using algaefix etc, think about making a bunch of algae cells suddenly leaky. So what exactly gets released? sugars, amino acids, etc hard to say. (there's a paper on algae getting exposed to these polymers ending up releasing higher levels of dissolved free amino acids)
Depends on what organisms are in the tank, which ones are more and less affected by the algaecide, and what their condition is - how much stored goodies are in their cells?
So now that stuff gets released - bacteria gobble it up, and depending on the details of what's released - this may basically look to bacteria like a carbon dose resulting in lower measurable PO4 , NO3 etc.

Dan exposed some algae containers he grew to the algaecide and tracked PO4. in some it stayed the same, in some it went down, in others it went up a bit. The details of what it hits and how hard matters a lot, it would seem.

Thanks for the reply, I know I am a inexperienced reefer, only 3 years into things but one thing that I have learned from my slog with all this stuff is that there are so many things happening at the bacteria level that we really are just not starting to understand, and when I say understand I mean more like realize. We are a long way from truly understand all the relationships but hoping that we can further the understanding the bacteria battlefront and how we can influence the good stuff vs the stuff we do not want...thats my hope anyway, lol.

 

[ScottB]

Yeah, like @ScottB said, Vibrant had a lack of detectable anything that wasn't in Algaefix. No carbon sources, etc. It's not like it had the algaefix ingredients + some special stuff.
To understand the complexity of nutrients moving around with using algaefix etc, think about making a bunch of algae cells suddenly leaky. So what exactly gets released? sugars, amino acids, etc hard to say. (there's a paper on algae getting exposed to these polymers ending up releasing higher levels of dissolved free amino acids)
Depends on what organisms are in the tank, which ones are more and less affected by the algaecide, and what their condition is - how much stored goodies are in their cells?
So now that stuff gets released - bacteria gobble it up, and depending on the details of what's released - this may basically look to bacteria like a carbon dose resulting in lower measurable PO4 , NO3 etc.

Dan exposed some algae containers he grew to the algaecide and tracked PO4. in some it stayed the same, in some it went down, in others it went up a bit. The details of what it hits and how hard matters a lot, it would seem.

Intuitively this does make some sense. Gradually they store carbon and then suddenly the storing cell walls get destroyed. A forest fire in essence.

Thanks for the reply, I know I am a inexperienced reefer, only 3 years into things but one thing that I have learned from my slog with all this stuff is that there are so many things happening at the bacteria level that we really are just not starting to understand, and when I say understand I mean more like realize. We are a long way from truly understand all the relationships but hoping that we can further the understanding the bacteria battlefront and how we can influence the good stuff vs the stuff we do not want...thats my hope anyway, lol.

I have this conversation often with reefers with new systems that kill acropora. "But my numbers are perfect!" Yes, by way of what we commonly measure the numbers (Salinity, ALK, Ca, No3, PO4, etc) are perfect. But your biome is not stable. Your various surface competitors (bacteria chiefly among them) are in flux and warfare. There is too much concentration so the battlefields switch constantly and widely. When there are finally enough competitors, well, the conflict gets reduced to skirmishes which most acropora can survive.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

So I posted a bit ago as algaefix does remove chrysos. And I also stated my sps started to STN. Well. I figured out why, and it wasn’t due to algaefix.

at first I was stumped. Did an ICP test and results came back with no metals etc. even my BTA split. That was when I knew something else was a problem. It turns out my turn over rate wasnt fast enough to keep the display water warm. And caused dramatic temp drops during this winter..