Some SPS just got white tips, please help!

[Jonas Bergkvist]

So, all of a sudden a couple of my frags has gotten white tips, and the worst one has lost it's flesh half way down. They where all doing great until a few days ago. As far as can remember i have only changed a few things in my tank, but i can't figure out if it's me who done anything or maybe it's a water issue?

Right side of tank - AP9X
Doing good Acropora frags: These are located on the sand bed and gets about 450 PAR. Tenuis Lightning, Medusa and one Purple Valida. They have extended polyps.

In the same spot i have Acropora Purple Blue, and one Acropora Pink Rose which are doing bad - they have white tips and i don't know why. I had these and the ones above for about three weeks. No white base on them.

On the top of the rocks (5-600 PAR i know it's a lot) i have another three frags which are doing bad: It's two Valida's and one pink Acro. The validas did great like two weeks ago, and had a nice purple and getting a few new branches. One of the Valida's now i half white skeleton at first i thought it was growth but i see the base of the coral is also some white on it as well. It just don't look right. The pink one, well it never really got pink - mostly faded pink at best but no loss of tissue. Also got a bigger Acropora green i see it is getting whiter tips, but not as bad. Some algae stuck to the tips. One more frag has a whiteish base - might be a Staghorn.

Left side of (mixed lights) tank is a Millepora which is doing just fine and next to that a big Milkapora that seems to be unaffected with what ever the other corals are suffering from.

Softies are seem fine: Zoa's and two leathers, and then i got one Colonial Tunicate.

LPS: For the most part never did well in my tank. A few survive. In fact two of them has been slowly dying for two month or so. Exception is my Duncan who looked splendid until i roasted it to death under my new APX9. One blastomussa just barely hanging in there.

Total volume 180g. Using RODI water. WC 10% once every second week.... but this time i'm one week past due.
Parameters:
SG 1.024 (calibrated refractometer. slowly getting it up to 26)
Nitrate: tried to test yesterday but my test went to ****. It's the Hanna checker. I hate Nitrate tests!
Alk: 7.5
CA: 402
MG: 1350
Phosphate: Yesterday i had 0.00 so i added two caps of Phosphorus. Today i ended up with 0.1 :-/ i dose often one cap to get to around 0.02-0.05

Past Thursday i noticed my Tunze algae scraper was cracked and rusty, so i ran carbon for three days just in case. Can this cause white tips?

Two times a week i feed the corals with either reef roids or reef pearls - but not spot feed. I feed my fish twice a day with frozen food.

Can this white tips happen from low nutrients even if i stick to around 0.02-5 or something? I try to get Phosphates up all the time. I got two small Brightwell bio bricks in sump. If it helps maybe i should remove one of them?

I run a Nyos 160 Skimmer.

Please help, i don't want my other corals to perish.

 

[TnFishwater98]

So, all of a sudden a couple of my frags has gotten white tips, and the worst one has lost it's flesh half way down. They where all doing great until a few days ago. As far as can remember i have only changed a few things in my tank, but i can't figure out if it's me who done anything or maybe it's a water issue?

Right side of tank - AP9X
Doing good Acropora frags: These are located on the sand bed and gets about 450 PAR. Tenuis Lightning, Medusa and one Purple Valida. They have extended polyps.

In the same spot i have Acropora Purple Blue, and one Acropora Pink Rose which are doing bad - they have white tips and i don't know why. I had these and the ones above for about three weeks. No white base on them.

On the top of the rocks (5-600 PAR i know it's a lot) i have another three frags which are doing bad: It's two Valida's and one pink Acro. The validas did great like two weeks ago, and had a nice purple and getting a few new branches. One of the Valida's now i half white skeleton at first i thought it was growth but i see the base of the coral is also some white on it as well. It just don't look right. The pink one, well it never really got pink - mostly faded pink at best but no loss of tissue. Also got a bigger Acropora green i see it is getting whiter tips, but not as bad. Some algae stuck to the tips. One more frag has a whiteish base - might be a Staghorn.

Left side of (mixed lights) tank is a Millepora which is doing just fine and next to that a big Milkapora that seems to be unaffected with what ever the other corals are suffering from.

Softies are seem fine: Zoa's and two leathers, and then i got one Colonial Tunicate.

LPS: For the most part never did well in my tank. A few survive. In fact two of them has been slowly dying for two month or so. Exception is my Duncan who looked splendid until i roasted it to death under my new APX9. One blastomussa just barely hanging in there.

Total volume 180g. Using RODI water. WC 10% once every second week.... but this time i'm one week past due.
Parameters:
SG 1.024 (calibrated refractometer. slowly getting it up to 26)
Nitrate: tried to test yesterday but my test went to ****. It's the Hanna checker. I hate Nitrate tests!
Alk: 7.5
CA: 402
MG: 1350
Phosphate: Yesterday i had 0.00 so i added two caps of Phosphorus. Today i ended up with 0.1 :-/ i dose often one cap to get to around 0.02-0.05

Past Thursday i noticed my Tunze algae scraper was cracked and rusty, so i ran carbon for three days just in case. Can this cause white tips?

Two times a week i feed the corals with either reef roids or reef pearls - but not spot feed. I feed my fish twice a day with frozen food.

Can this white tips happen from low nutrients even if i stick to around 0.02-5 or something? I try to get Phosphates up all the time. I got two small Brightwell bio bricks in sump. If it helps maybe i should remove one of them?

I run a Nyos 160 Skimmer.

Please help, i don't want my other corals to perish.

Post some Pics

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

Post some Pics

Here are some pictures of them. A couple of the frags are doing well so far.... but as you can see there are white tips on others and one of them are half-white-stripped. I bet i the rest is going to turn white as well

 

[homer1475]

First and third picture are the only ones that look bad. Hard to say what the issue was that caused it. I've never really tried to figure out why a certain coral dies if everything else is looking good.

The second pic, looks to be shading, otherwise it looks ok to me.

 

[HB AL]

To me they don't look terrible at all. The white tips could be fast new growth or burnt tips. The rusty Tunze depending on how long it had been rusting would have released metals into your water that certain corals react negatively right away and others take longer, the acros as is your case are always the 1st to show there's a problem. I would take a sample and send in an icp test. Then i would Asap buy a polyfilter (carbon won't remove the heavy metals) as that will remove any heavy metals. If the polyfilter changes color showing what the issue is I would do a large water change, then another one within a week. Good luck

 

[ScottB]

Sorry for all the questions, but here goes:
a) When was system started? Live or dead rock start?
b) How often are you testing PO4 and NO3? How often do they bounce around zero?
c) You report little success with most LPS. How about SPS? Are these all in under a month? Or do you have some that have survived much longer?

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

To me they don't look terrible at all. The white tips could be fast new growth or burnt tips. The rusty Tunze depending on how long it had been rusting would have released metals into your water that certain corals react negatively right away and others take longer, the acros as is your case are always the 1st to show there's a problem. I would take a sample and send in an icp test. Then i would Asap buy a polyfilter (carbon won't remove the heavy metals) as that will remove any heavy metals. If the polyfilter changes color showing what the issue is I would do a large water change, then another one within a week. Good luck

Thanks, i never heard of polyfilter so i will look into that! Sounds like a usable test to me.

I thought of ICP test, but i’m short of money right now so it will have to wait. I will do a waterchange in a few days and i hope it will dilute any polution (if any).

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

Sorry for all the questions, but here goes:
a) When was system started? Live or dead rock start?
b) How often are you testing PO4 and NO3? How often do they bounce around zero?
c) You report little success with most LPS. How about SPS? Are these all in under a month? Or do you have some that have survived much longer?

No worries, questions are good!

A) Dry start with Marco Rocks. After cycle added 15kg of live rock. Tank is a year old now.

B) I test PO4 every second/third day. Getting tired of it but it’s a quick test. Two weeks back for some reason i had a streak of 0.02-0.05 for a whole week which was nice.

But PO4 is bouncing from 0.00 to 0.08 since i started. Been worse but i removed Zeolite.

NO3: last time it was a month ago. Then it read 4.6ppm. I did not really trust that test because it was a bit cloudy inside the testing vial. I have always had 5+ Nitrate. Almost always. Using a Hanna LR test for it. I honestly hate Nitrate test because its such a fidlle and PIA lol

Now that i think of it was around a 1.5months ago my Chaeto melted for the second time, so now my Refugium is empty aside from rocks and sand.

Maybe my Nitrates bottomed out because i have been dosing PO4 for so long?

C) The Milkepora i had for over six months and five frags from another colony. They grow a lot.

Got one green Hydnophora as well i guess for same time. It grows well. Polyps out and looks awsome. Its not big but around 2” all around.

Then three frags of Caroliniana, but i see they lack colour. I think i had them for three months+. Encrusted first month and now it doesnt grow. Doing okish i think but i dunno how to colour them up or make them grow. They are pale on the branches. Maybe 450 PAR is to much?

 

[HB AL]

Thanks, i never heard of polyfilter so i will look into that! Sounds like a usable test to me.

I thought of ICP test, but i’m short of money right now so it will have to wait. I will do a waterchange in a few days and i hope it will dilute any polution (if any).

Here ya go, they've been around forever, great product. Atleast it will tell ya by the color change if some of those types of contamination are present and remove them.

Poly Filter Aquarium Filter

The POLY-FILTER is for filtering and purifying both fresh and salt water aquariums. It is a formulation of a special patented material bonded to a synthetic matrix. By means of a unique proprietary process, the POLY-FILTER is made impervious to salt and is also organic loving to certain...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

Here ya go, they've been around forever, great product. Atleast it will tell ya by the color change if some of those types of contamination are present and remove them.

Poly Filter Aquarium Filter

The POLY-FILTER is for filtering and purifying both fresh and salt water aquariums. It is a formulation of a special patented material bonded to a synthetic matrix. By means of a unique proprietary process, the POLY-FILTER is made impervious to salt and is also organic loving to certain...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Thanks! I live in Sweden, and i will check if it’s sold around here. Probably not. We don’t have all the cool stuff like you guys do I often buy from Germany or The Netherlands, they might have it!

 

[ScottB]

No worries, questions are good!

A) Dry start with Marco Rocks. After cycle added 15kg of live rock. Tank is a year old now.

B) I test PO4 every second/third day. Getting tired of it but it’s a quick test. Two weeks back for some reason i had a streak of 0.02-0.05 for a whole week which was nice.

But PO4 is bouncing from 0.00 to 0.08 since i started. Been worse but i removed Zeolite.

NO3: last time it was a month ago. Then it read 4.6ppm. I did not really trust that test because it was a bit cloudy inside the testing vial. I have always had 5+ Nitrate. Almost always. Using a Hanna LR test for it. I honestly hate Nitrate test because its such a fidlle and PIA lol

Now that i think of it was around a 1.5months ago my Chaeto melted for the second time, so now my Refugium is empty aside from rocks and sand.

Maybe my Nitrates bottomed out because i have been dosing PO4 for so long?

C) The Milkepora i had for over six months and five frags from another colony. They grow a lot.

Got one green Hydnophora as well i guess for same time. It grows well. Polyps out and looks awsome. Its not big but around 2” all around.

Then three frags of Caroliniana, but i see they lack colour. I think i had them for three months+. Encrusted first month and now it doesnt grow. Doing okish i think but i dunno how to colour them up or make them grow. They are pale on the branches. Maybe 450 PAR is to much?

Okay at a year now with some live rock, your biome should be just about mature enough to keep some acropora. Assuming you never had a big stall on biome development like a dino outbreak, you have to be getting close to enough maturity.

Feeding twice a day is good. Three times would be even better. How many fish?

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

Okay at a year now with some live rock, your biome should be just about mature enough to keep some acropora. Assuming you never had a big stall on biome development like a dino outbreak, you have to be getting close to enough maturity.

Feeding twice a day is good. Three times would be even better. How many fish?

I did actually have just a tad of Dinos in my sump, but it went away pretty quickly. This was like two months ago and it hasn't been back luckily.

I have
1 FoxFace
2 Lined Dartfish
1 Coral Beauty
2 Ocellaris
1 Yellow Tail Tang (Medium size)
1 Poison Fang Blenny
1 Yellow Coris Wrasse
1 Timor Wrasse (Medium size)

Then around four shrimp and a Reef Lobster (small one i think it's called Dobelius)
A couple of snails.

I've added some more pictures if it helps

 

[ScottB]

Good fish list. How many gallons/liters?

 

[i_am_mclovin]

It is very likely that the metal contamination from the rust is causing this. Given the info you've provided, it's the most likely culprit. If not, with sps, in many cases it's not what you did yesterday, but what you did 2 weeks ago. Acros can be slow to respond to swings in Alk, etc and then die off 2 weeks later.

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

Good fish list. How many gallons/liters?

Total volume is 200g but maybe 170g excluding rocks and sand etc...

I think i need to get a new Nitrate test and see where i'm at. This one is old. If it's to low i might get rid of one of the Brightwell bio bricks. I'd rather have a cool functioning Refugium. In fact, i love Refugium's with all the possibilities of getting cool macro algae. I had two types that was red, three types of green - all melted

Or i might disconnect the tubing from the skimmer and let it hang down in the sump, because i still want the aeration going.

I think all in all i'm just low on nutrients. How do i get the nutrients up? I feed a lot. I really think so. Two sometimes three times per day. Corals get food two / three times a week with reef pearls and reef roids. One feeding is a cube half inch by half inch, maybe a little less. I think that is much! Sometimes i swing by the tank and give them a little extra pellets.

Maybe i clean it to often? I blow of the rocks twice a week and also the sand. I think corals like that, but then again it might not have time to build up some N and P? I also brush of crap from the rocks. I should get more snails perhaps and let them do the job Snails also poop N&P right!

Does low nutrients and high PAR have some sort of relationship? Like if they get a lot of food from light, but not much from the water they might bleach out? The whitening is happening on tanks right side (AP9X), on left side they don't get as much light.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

Don't chase nutrients. The funny thing about nutrients is, just because you don't measure them doesn't mean your corals are not getting them. If you're doing heavy import but heavy export, you'll see very little nutrients when you measure. But that doesn't mean your corals aren't getting any. From what I recall, coral eat more ammonia than N or P all day long. Your fish/etc don't poop N and P. Their waste is ammonia, and corals eat that, along with the nitrifying bacteria which then turn it to N and P. Corals do use some N and P, but not a ton.

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

It is very likely that the metal contamination from the rust is causing this. Given the info you've provided, it's the most likely culprit. If not, with sps, in many cases it's not what you did yesterday, but what you did 2 weeks ago. Acros can be slow to respond to swings in Alk, etc and then die off 2 weeks later.

Yes, you are absolutely right. A soon as i can I'll order an ICP test. If there are nasty metals present in the water it will show there. Right now I can't buy one of those Polyfilters that ScottB above tipped me about.

I just got my schedule out and now i see that on the 19:th of November i had a salinity of 0.025, and exactly one week later i had 0.022! That is just over two weeks ago from now. I just recalibrated my ****** RedSea refractometer with 35ppt and RODI water. Now my salinity is 0.023......good greif. This must be it! I knew it was low, but not that it could cause this!

It is the salinity that causes the white tips and flesh loss isn't it?

 

[Jonas Bergkvist]

Don't chase nutrients. The funny thing about nutrients is, just because you don't measure them doesn't mean your corals are not getting them. If you're doing heavy import but heavy export, you'll see very little nutrients when you measure. But that doesn't mean your corals aren't getting any. From what I recall, coral eat more ammonia than N or P all day long. Your fish/etc don't poop N and P. Their waste is ammonia, and corals eat that, along with the nitrifying bacteria which then turn it to N and P. Corals do use some N and P, but not a ton.

Thanks for clarifying! Yes, it makes sense what you say about the nutrients import and export. I guess then it will only be an issue if you have an imbalance between the two. It is probably tricky to get it right, as I've seen a lot of reefers that complain about having either to much or they are bottoming out N&P. I had the weird problem of having 0.00 Phosphate, yet i had 5+ Nitrate. I don't know how i managed to put myself in this situation. Maybe P was less in food? I don't know...

 

[ScottB]

More fish & more feedings. A total Win/Win!

Phosphate can take a long time to build up in a system. Much of it remains bound to sand and rock. You do need a little bit in the water at all times. We are talking parts per billion here, but still. It is an essential nutrient for your whole biome, not just corals. Acros don't consume phosphorus directly (to much work for this simple creature), rather they consume the bacteria that eat the phosphorus.

 

[Cory]

With high phosphates (.5ppm and up) youll just get slow growth. With low phosphate 0.00ppm youll also get slow growth, but not as slow with high phosphate. Low maintaned phos 0.00 will cause stn and paling corals.

The tunze algae magnet has neodymium magnets and that will cause stn or rtn. Neodymium magnets contain iron and boron, which isnt a problem but has other metals that can be sps killers like nickel and copper. They are coated with that to prevent corrosion. I dont keep magnets in my tank for this reason. An icp will show levels of copper, nickel and possibly zinc from magnets corroding.