Some what high nitrates and phosephates

[sergifed91]

I have been battling nitrates and Phosephates since day1.
specs
60 g tank
1 eshopps psk-100 skimmer
live sand
60 lbs of live rock. I am currently curing another 15 lbs but that won't be ready for several months.
fish currently have 2 clown fish
2 bta
1 red rose anema
toadstool leather mushroom coral
1 devils hand that just won't open up on me.
neon green birds nest
ric orange
2 red polyps and green polyps
xenia
lights I'm using 2 16" basic reef editon sb reef lights.
1 jebao sw-8 pw and an aquena 950 circulation pump.

when I am at home I do a lot of heavy skimming but when I'm at work I turn the skimmer down so it won't stop before I get home from work.
I just started vodka dosing. but before that I did a water change since it has been 2 weeks since my last wc. it was at 20 and after the water change it was still reading 20. the difference I did this time is I have a water pump that I just throw in the bucket and let it do the lifting for me know. where before I had another person with me with a colander and I poured it in the colander and did it that way. which always stirred up the substrate. I did notice this last water change that the substrate and the rocks were not disturbed at all. which is a good thing since all the magic happens in the substrate(live sand). but how often do I need to change the water. I do 20 gallons a week. which is usually done between Wednesdays and Fridays nights. which is close to about 50 percent everyweek. either it's still cycling or something is leaching. or I might be over feeding. which I know I am. which could be the cause of the high nitrates. I have reduced that feeding down. .2 ML in the morning and .2 ML in the evening. why ML? I have it mixed in some water and I use a syringe to measure it out. where before I was using a turkey baster. which was a bad idea.

I just started dosing .2 ml of vodka a day. I'm only on day 2. on day 5 -7 I plan on increasing that to .4 that's when I will split it up to 2 dosing of .2 one in the morning and one in the evening. then after the 1st week to .9 or to 1 ml for 7 days and still continue to test phosphates and nitrates. the nitrates I am using a test strip for those since I just seem to get a more accurate reading with those. API test kit I get the nitrates blood red. I have tried to use other test kits. such as seachem, salifert, and I either get high readings or nothifng at all. so I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or if there just faulty test kits. but may have to look into a hanna eventually. with the tetra test strips I verify my readings. then go to the local fish store and have them verify the results. and they always appear to be the same as the tetra test strips I use. I'm not saying that there always accurate but just seems to work for me.
should I continue to do weekly WC's or daily or every other day wc while dosing vodka?

 

[WallyB]

This thread caught my attention since I've been struggling with N&P with my fairly well setup tank. I have a Algae scrubber which I hoped would handle both.
But nope it didn't.

Looking to what others reply to you......

FIRST A QUESTION. Are you chasing ideal numbers, or do you have a Algae or Coral problem?

I am giving up on getting Nitrate down from 25ppm. Appears that is what my tank runs at with my fish and feeding.
Corals look healthy, and have great color.....so I believe 15-25ppm is not too bad from what I see in other good tanks. Even that Video of WWC display tank said they run at N=25pppm and P below 0.1.

Believe it or not, many folks will say P around 10 isn't that bad. Could be ideal.
Heck my non SPS tank full of LPS and Zoas, softies has P=0.5 and N=50 and looks great.


But SPS only tank, for Phosphates, I was as high at 0.4ppm. and I got bent on dropping that, since I do think lower P will help corals with Growth and PE. (I'm no expert but believe in the noise)
I wasn't going to do anything like NOPOX, carbon dosing, vinegar, bacteria, since it's work to keep running and there are risks like Bacterial Blooms and Tank Crashes if not done right.

Also I wasn't too comfortable using GFO from lesson is past. Too much of a drop on P can damage SPS Corals.

I started weekly water changes. 20% for 6 weeks, and on week two I started using Phosban in a reactor.
Slowly P came down to 0.1...just today(finally) (needed to change out Phosban a few times over last few weeks). Stuff works slow and exhausts much quicker then GFO.

Look forward to learning more.

 

[sergifed91]

This thread caught my attention since I've been struggling with N&P with my fairly well setup tank. I have a Algae scrubber which I hoped would handle both.
But nope it didn't.

Looking to what others reply to you......

I am giving up on getting Nitrate down from 25ppm. Appears that is what my tank runs at with my fish and feeding.
Corals look healthy, and have great color.....so I believe 15-25ppm is not too bad from what I see in other good tanks. Even that Video of WWC display tank said they run at N=25pppm and P below 0.1.

Believe it or not, many folks will say P around 10 isn't that bad. Could be ideal.
Heck my non SPS tank full of LPS and Zoas, softies has P=0.5 and N=50 and looks great.


But SPS only tank, for Phosphates, I was as high at 0.4ppm. and I got bent on dropping that, since I do think lower P will help corals with Growth and PE. (I'm no expert but believe in the noise)
I wasn't going to do anything like NOPOX, carbon dosing, vinegar, bacteria, since it's work to keep running and there are risks like Bacterial Blooms and Tank Crashes if not done right.

Also I wasn't too comfortable using GFO from lesson is past. Too much of a drop on P can damage SPS Corals.

I started weekly water changes. 20% for 6 weeks, and on week two I started using Phosban in a reactor.
Slowly P came down to 0.1...just today(finally) (needed to change out Phosban a few times over last few weeks). Stuff works slow and exhausts much quicker then GFO.

Look forward to learning more.

nitrates I can't get below 20 ppm and phosaphates are a steady .2. I am however starting to see some growth now that I switched to my sb reef lights. where before I was using aquatic life 48" reef edition lights. I think I needed 2 of those just to see growth. but the sb reef lights although I bought used are amazingly bright and I started seeing growth . the corals look healthier and open up more. I run blues from 7 am to 8 pm and leds are on from 11 am to 3 pm. I think I may have to change those times and cut it down some. might be on way to long with the blues. I'll probably start them around 10 am and run the lights to 8 pm.

 

[WallyB]

nitrates I can't get below 20 ppm and phosaphates are a steady .2. I am however starting to see some growth now that I switched to my sb reef lights. where before I was using aquatic life 48" reef edition lights. I think I needed 2 of those just to see growth. but the sb reef lights although I bought used are amazingly bright and I started seeing growth . the corals look healthier and open up more. I run blues from 7 am to 8 pm and leds are on from 11 am to 3 pm. I think I may have to change those times and cut it down some. might be on way to long with the blues. I'll probably start them around 10 am and run the lights to 8 pm.

Your topic was N&P. However if you are wondering about lights that it so much a different topic, and quite subjective to how your tank is setup and how your corals are placed.
I learned with LPS, Leathers, and Zoas, it take a long time for them to adjust and like lighting. Many weeks, sometimes months.
As long are you are not too intense and burning them, it takes time. Placement is really tricky. Start lower, and work higher. Even that is tricky.
Main Full lighting (max brightness) around 8 hours worked for me. With a couple of hours on either side for lower lighting (blue) like sunrise, and sunset.


Age of your tank, and A photo of your tank and corals always helps. Hard to guess from description.
If they are healthy, and open up when lights come on. Growth takes time.

Leather sometimes get sensitive and won't open up for many weeks.
I had this Finger Leather that started small/medium. Wouldn't open up for a while. When I say open up, I mean Polyp. Get Fuzzy.
They may go through some Molting (skin comes off).

and then it did wake up and two years later. Tank is 95 Gallon. Bit larger than yours.

Got too big so I had to take it out.

Many Year ago, a tiny 2" toadstool.....out grew my tank too.

So if your leather is doing fine. Enjoy it while it fits.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

20 ppm nitrate and 0.2 ppm phosphate is fine if you do not have other apparent issues.

I'd continue the slow and steady vodka dosing and monitor over time.

 

[WallyB]

20 ppm nitrate and 0.2 ppm phosphate is fine if you do not have other apparent issues.

I'd continue the slow and steady vodka dosing and monitor over time.

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley ,
I have read your article on Nitrates and Phosphates (and many others). Listened to many opinions, and compared successful tanks.

My gut feeling from all the information is if I keep my Phosphates around <=0.1 (using Phosban as a gentle control), and let my Nitrates stay at around 20-25 (which is my Tanks steady state, no matter what I do)....THINGS WILL BE FINE if all other Water Parameter are stable and optimum.

I don't want to get into any Carbon Dosing , but have consider it to help with Nitrate Level. (Willing....but Last resort if needed for N only)
I do have Matrix Media in my Tank, and run an Algae Scubber. Weekly 10-15% water changes.
SPS are very colorful, have PE, and all grow at reasonable rates. No DT Algae.

What I'm trying to say is Phosphates are more important to Keep Lower (for SPS), even though many preach N lower . Correct?

 

[Flippers4pups]

I for one don't mind N03 at 20 or even as high as 40 ppm and P04 at 0.1.

As long as my corals look good and they are growing, no nuisance algae issues (which I never have) then I don't chase those numbers.

 

[WallyB]

I for one don't mind N03 at 20 or even as high as 40 ppm and P04 at 0.1.

As long as my corals look good and they are growing, no nuisance algae issues (which I never have) then I don't chase those numbers.

Understood that N can be higher.
My point was P. I wasn't comfortable with P getting close to 0.25-0.3. Thus I worked on only that number to get it down (SLOWLY) to 0.1 and keep it there.
P took time to get lower, since as I got close to 0.1, it felt like an exponential struggle (figured it was slow leaching from Rocks as Randy's Article say).

With P=20, and N=0.1 my SPS look like this. (5 month new tank restart. Old 20 year rocks,sump,etc)

I feel there is no point is starting Vinegar/Carbon anything to lower N if things stay this healthy. (will continue Phosban to keep P=0.1)

 

[Flippers4pups]

Understood that N can be higher.
My point was P. I wasn't comfortable with P getting close to 0.25-0.3. Thus I worked on only that number to get it down (SLOWLY) to 0.1 and keep it there.
P took time to get lower, since as I got close to 0.1, it felt like an exponential struggle (figured it was slow leaching from Rocks as Randy's Article say).

With P=20, and N=0.1 my SPS look like this. (5 month new tank restart. Old 20 year rocks,sump,etc)

Tank looks great!

 

[WallyB]

Sorry I intruded in on this thread. The topic Nitrates & Phosphates hit the spot for me.

Back to @new setup

 

[sergifed91]

Your topic was N&P. However if you are wondering about lights that it so much a different topic, and quite subjective to how your tank is setup and how your corals are placed.
I learned with LPS, Leathers, and Zoas, it take a long time for them to adjust and like lighting. Many weeks, sometimes months.
As long are you are not too intense and burning them, it takes time. Placement is really tricky. Start lower, and work higher. Even that is tricky.
Main Full lighting (max brightness) around 8 hours worked for me. With a couple of hours on either side for lower lighting (blue) like sunrise, and sunset.


Age of your tank, and A photo of your tank and corals always helps. Hard to guess from description.
If they are healthy, and open up when lights come on. Growth takes time.

Leather sometimes get sensitive and won't open up for many weeks.
I had this Finger Leather that started small/medium. Wouldn't open up for a while. When I say open up, I mean Polyp. Get Fuzzy.
They may go through some Molting (skin comes off).

and then it did wake up and two years later. Tank is 95 Gallon. Bit larger than yours.

Got too big so I had to take it out.

Many Year ago, a tiny 2" toadstool.....out grew my tank too.

So if your leather is doing fine. Enjoy it while it fits.

Since I have been dosing with vodka. My skimmer has been working nonstop. I have been emptying it everyday. although no change in nitrates yet. with the skimmer working overtime now. I think it should be coming. will do a wc on Friday again. Plus I added 10 more punds of live rock to the tank yesterday. so that should help. I don't think I will need an external filter maybe a HOB filter and put some media in it for the phosphates still being at .2. I did test my water before I added salt for phosphates and it read at .2 so its the water i'm using. i'm thinking about throwing in the hat on this and quit chasing the numbers since my water reading does show phosphates at .2. theres nothing I can do about that until I get a rodi. but I will say I am getting a workout on carrying water to the basement. which I need the workout.