sooo lost.. kind of

pdxmonkeyboy · Mar 7, 2017

I'm looking for some advice from experienced people. Even though I already have four 100+ gallon African cichlid tanks, I made the mistake of visiting a reef store a couple months ago. Then I started reading up on reef keeping, visiting more reef stores.

I ultimately want around a 120 or perhaps 180 gallon tank. I am planning on buying another house this summer and the layout of the house will have some influence.

ANYWAYS... I was thinking that it would be nice to set up a frag tank and sump and start to grow some corals for awhile with the goal being to have some decent sized things to actually put in the larger tank. I don't want my reef tank to look like a see of stumps for a year.

I could build a 4x2x12" frag tank and 40 gallon sump for about $200. (there is a huge acrylic supplier in portland). And I already have spare return pumps, some 8 bulb t5ho reflectors, digital MH and HPS ballasts, power heads, temp controllers.. Yada Yada Yada.

But..It has been difficult to find info on starting a frag tank when you don't have a display tank and the necessary microbial populations. I thought... I'll just buy some live rock, and let it run for awhile... then I read that if I did that the live rock would die.(apparently from ammonia spikes during cycling)?? Do I even need to cycle a frag tank if only corals in at first?

While I have seen plenty of frag tanks, I don't see them with larger corals. Would it be difficult to move larger corals into a DT down the road?

Am I just way off base here?
I thought I could set up a decent frag system for under 1k and see how much I liked saltwater. Is this not a decent plan?

I ordered some reef tank books to provide further info but thought I would bounce the question off you folks and see what you thought.

Sandroni · Mar 7, 2017

Welcome to R2R! Probably the most helpful people are here. To answer your question: Yes, you do need to cycle a tank for just frags since they rely on bacteria also. And the ammonia goes down along with the cycling process.

scobeyra · Mar 7, 2017

A frag tank is a great way to grow out corals for a display tank. It should be fairly easy to transfer once they're grown out as long as you don't let corals like Zoas grow over the actual racks. Make sure they stay on the frag plugs or rocks.
As for cycling, I've heard both sides when it comes to coral. I wouldn't throw in a full stock of corals before the tank is cycled, but it's ok to put a hardy frag or two in. I would be careful about using live rock to cycle as they can often have pests if you don't 100% trust where you're getting it from. Otherwise i would use as much dry rock or Ceramic bio balls in the sump as you can. Add some bacterial in a bottle or ghost feed the tank to kick start the cycle. I also find keeping a sand bed in my frag tank keeps things happier than a bare bottom but that's just my preference.
Hope this helps

MmmmBalf · Mar 7, 2017

You will need to cycle the tank. Although you won't have the same bioload as a tank with fish, you will be feeding the tank, so will need some biological filtration. Corals are invertebrates & sensitive to water conditions (more so than fish in many respects).

pdxmonkeyboy · Mar 7, 2017

that makes sense. I'm aware of the sensitivity so I figured robust filtration would be in order.

can I seed the tank with ceramic rings taken out of my freshwater tank?

I haven't used any meds in that tank in about 6 months and it was reef like nitrate levels despite a VERY heavy bio load

zieg9479 · Mar 7, 2017

Just put in your first frag or grab a handful of rock/sand from your fish store. Bacteria multiple very rapidly, it doesn't take much.

MmmmBalf · Mar 7, 2017

You won't be able to seed from freshwater bacteria. They're different. The bacteria will die in saltwater.

donnievaz · Mar 7, 2017

Once you have it cycled it's not a bad idea (IMO) to toss a six-line wrasse or something similar in there. The fish waste will help feed the coral and in the case of some wrasses they will eat any small hitchhiking pests that come in on the frags.

Salty1962 · Mar 7, 2017

Welcome to R2R! There are a few threads on the site about setting up frag tanks. Take a look at those.

pdxmonkeyboy · Mar 8, 2017

thanks for the tips guys. I'm going to pick up a sheet of 1/2" acrylic this week and build a 2x4x12" or maybe 14" tank this weekend

brandon429 · Mar 8, 2017

here's a helpful summary for your endeavor

at the MACNA convention, they set up a million bucks worth of tanks in a few hours to house the fancy frags because they transport over already cycled materials

you can do the same, easily, in fact nearly all pico reefers in the world do it this way because we don't like to wait 5 mos or 5 yrs for decent looking purple rock

we have less dilution and chances for life after error in these small containers...the larger systems you ponder have skip cycling much easier

Using live rock means you are skipping a cycle, it doesn't mean someone else didn't cycle them, its true all systems must cycle.

We add ammonia and bottled bac to dry rock setups, so that we control the hitchhiker populations but that rock takes years to look good as a tradeoff. that cycle can take anywhere from 2-4 weeks to be able to convert ammonia safely, which is the starting point for any reef tank.

Cycling is complete as soon as a tank can process ammonia within 24 hours, and all the tanks at MACNA meet that ability though the keepers set up the tanks within a few hours.

Live rock carries the hitchhiker risks, but its also easy to skip cycle it and make a frag tank all in one day, I estimate we have examples of a thousand nano reefs doing that right now easily searched and they're doing it in much smaller systems that would register an ammonia event as a total tank loss.

you can choose to skip a cycle using already cycled materials, or wait the month and guide a dry system into place. I always opt for purple live rock, ive never cycled a marine tank in 16 yrs of reefing, not once, not ever. my pico reefs all got corals on day 1 just like macna at my house, so convenient.

agreed, use marine materials for the transfer if you choose the skip cycle mode.

pdxmonkeyboy · Mar 9, 2017

thanks a bunch. I think that I am just being a little paranoid at this point about the live rock and potential critters... principally because I don't have the slightest clue what I am looking out for.

I'm going to try and source some live rock locally to start right up but I also purchased 50lbs of reef saver rock to put in my sump. (I really like the idea of rock that is not taken from the ocean. Through diving in Asia and Fiji I have seen the devastating effects of the hobby).