Source Water Testing

[chomoney]

Hi all,

Question, to the point: does anybody have a recommendation for the best service to test source water?


Background:

For the better part of 2 years, my tank has been up and down. After getting AWESOME growth for 3-4 months, everything has once again taken a turn for the worse, and worse than ever. I’ve been in the hobby for years and have never had this much trouble [emoji17]

With that said, I love this hobby and don’t want to give up, even temporarily. It has gotten to the point where I am wondering if there I just something awful added to my water supply periodically. Another fishkeeper in the area mentioned this, so it’s a path at least worth exploring.

Fish have always been fine, fortunately, but corals experience periods of growth followed by recession and sometimes death. Right now, it looks like I may lose everything but my zoas.

I may create another full thread as needed, but will spare you all the full gamut for now while I investigate my source water more.

 

[jsker]

You could use one of these tests link. Usually the water company post their quality reports at the water companies web site.

 

[chomoney]

You could use one of these tests link. Usually the water company post their quality reports at the water companies web site.

Thanks. Yes, I have sent in a triton test in the past, and just did once more. I have used these for testing my tanks water, however, as I believe the parameters they test for are geared towards seawater.

In this instance, though, I’m looking for a thorough analysis on my source water. Would tests such as triton also help there?

 

[JoshH]

What is your source water? City or Well?? Are you running an RODI system?

 

[chomoney]

What is your source water? City or Well?? Are you running an RODI system?

It is city water run through an RODI.

I understand that most will say that the RODI, which does measures 0 tds, is doing its job.

However, I’m at my wits end and determined to figure out what the heck is going on... and figure I might as well start at the source [emoji846]

 

[JoshH]

Starting at the beginning is always a good way to go about it. Have you looked up your city's water testing? all municipalities are required to post what's in there water. Oh and if you don't mind, maybe post all your most recent parameter tests as we might find something with those as well.

 

[chomoney]

Much appreciate the help!

My municipalities water is in a screen shot below. Nothing looks out of sorts, but it also looks like the publicly available info is only a handful of parameters.

I will post some results in real time when I do another full round of tests Saturday, but my results have been:

Alk: 8.5 (decreasing from a spike to 9.5 when calcification stopped most recently

Calcium: 459 (raised slightly to help decrease alk)

Mag: 1400

Phosphates: Usually zero. Have been dosing up to .3ppm a day and it still bottoms out on Hanna. This is a point of concern and I’ve trimmed a ton of cheato and am running my skimmer only for gas exchange at this point

Nitrates: About 4ppm dosing up to 8ppm a day of Sodium Nitrate. Had consistent problems with this bottoming out as well

Total actual water volume is 160 gallons. 120g display with 40B and and roughly 50 gallon sumo plumbed in.

I REALLY thought my problems were low nutrient levels and that I finally figured it out. However I’ve been dosing and measuring phos and nitrate for over a month now and things are only getting worse [emoji17]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It is city water run through an RODI.

I understand that most will say that the RODI, which does measures 0 tds, is doing its job.

However, I’m at my wits end and determined to figure out what the heck is going on... and figure I might as well start at the source [emoji846]

I'm confused, but it is definitely true that 0 ppm TDS RO/DI water coming from a city water source does not have problematic levels of anything for a reef tank. Copper is the biggest concern in tap water, IMO.

Triton is geared toward those things which are important to a reef tank, but includes most inorganic toxins that would be found in city water. If you really want, ATI has a specific service for testing RO/DI, but the elements tested for are the same as for tank water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks. Yes, I have sent in a triton test in the past, and just did once more. I have used these for testing my tanks water, however, as I believe the parameters they test for are geared towards seawater.

In this instance, though, I’m looking for a thorough analysis on my source water. Would tests such as triton also help there?

And what did you find? If you had no problem in the tank water, why would the source water matter?

 

[chomoney]

And what did you find? If you had no problem in the tank water, why would the source water matter?

Hi Randy -

I just sent my test in Monday, so unsure of the results yet.

From hobbyist test kits, the only potential problem I can see is low nutrient levels, but dosing nitrate and phosphate hasn’t seemed to have headed off the problems I’m having [emoji17]

Will report back on my triton findings as soon as I have the results.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy -

I just sent my test in Monday, so unsure of the results yet.

From hobbyist test kits, the only potential problem I can see is low nutrient levels, but dosing nitrate and phosphate hasn’t seemed to have headed off the problems I’m having [emoji17]

Will report back on my triton findings as soon as I have the results.

I presume you've looked the tank over for metal parts getting corroded or in the water somehow?

 

[chomoney]

I'm confused, but it is definitely true that 0 ppm TDS RO/DI water coming from a city water source does not have problematic levels of anything for a reef tank. Copper is the biggest concern in tap water, IMO.

Triton is geared toward those things which are important to a reef tank, but includes most inorganic toxins that would be found in city water. If you really want, ATI has a specific service for testing RO/DI, but the elements tested for are the same as for tank water.

Thanks for clarifying here Randy. I was unsure if, even with 0 tds, something could be sneaking in. This puts my mind at ease so I can focus in on other areas, though I may send a sample to ATI just to be sure [emoji846]

 

[chomoney]

I presume you've looked the tank over for metal parts getting corroded or in the water somehow?

Yes, I have on a number of occasions. At this point, I almost wish it was something like that so I could at least find and resolve this issue [emoji17]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Let us know what you get from those tests!

Unfortunately, there are folks who have problems with no apparent chemistry issues. In some of those cases, the effect might be biological, like a pathogenic bacteria or other microorganism. Then there's the whole list of ordinary issues: light, flow, temperature, salinity, large pesky organisms, including fish, etc.

 

[chomoney]

Let us know what you get from those tests!

Unfortunately, there are folks who have problems with no apparent chemistry issues. In some of those cases, the effect might be biological, like a pathogenic bacteria or other microorganism. Then there's the whole list of ordinary issues: light, flow, temperature, salinity, large pesky organisms, including fish, etc.

Yes that has been the frustrating part for me! Just going to attempt to go step by step, systematically, in hopes of nailing it down.

At this point, I think I’m looking at 3 possible issues:
1) contaminants (triton will let me know)
2) low nutrients (though I’m thinking this less and less since I have been dosing)
3) biological/bacteria issues (started with dry Walt smith rock. Have seen reports from Mike Paletta, for example, of similar results from dry rock)

My only other odd observation, is that, in the two years I’ve had this set up, I have only thought “wow! My water is crystal clear” for a few weeks. This also coincided with the best growth I ever had in the tank. Possibly indicative of a bacterial issue?

With regards to light and flow, I have used a par meter and I’m pretty confident my flow is appropriate just from long term experiences.

The whole scenario is just a real bummer... this set up was done right after we bought our first house. I was so excited to finally be able to set up a display with fish room, drill some holes in the floor, etc. Unfortunately it’s been nothing short of heartbreaking in terms of success though.

 

[chomoney]

I’m sure this is far fetched, but is there any sort of service in which a biologist would look at a sample for bacteria present in a water sample?

 

[chomoney]

So, I got the results from my triton tests... nothing is “crazy” but I do have some theories.

Interested to see if some folks (hopefully Randy[emoji846]) either agree or find holes in my thoughts...

Theory: I had massive amounts of cheato relative to my system size. Almost 60 gallons worth with an actual water volume of 60 gallons. I think the cheato was starving my corals.

Reason for this theory: iodine is at zero, and macroalgea consumes iodine (I believe heavily?)

Since this time, I’ve taking POUNDS of cheato out and some big water changes while still monitoring nitrate and phosphate. Coral health has improved.

It’s worth noting that at the time of this test, I was dosing .3ppm phosphate a day and still getting 0 in 24 hours on a Hanna. I believe nitrate dosing was around 4ppm, but had stabilized. Just wanted to make this note as the po4 reading is artificially high due to the dosing.

Also, my potassium was low. Assuming I’ve corrected this via water changes and will monitor, but I guess I shouldn’t have been worrying about dosing Sodium nitrate instead of Potassium nitrate after all [emoji4]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m sure this is far fetched, but is there any sort of service in which a biologist would look at a sample for bacteria present in a water sample?

Limited and very expensive to identify species, if that’s the goal.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So, I got the results from my triton tests... nothing is “crazy” but I do have some theories.

Interested to see if some folks (hopefully Randy[emoji846]) either agree or find holes in my thoughts...

Theory: I had massive amounts of cheato relative to my system size. Almost 60 gallons worth with an actual water volume of 60 gallons. I think the cheato was starving my corals.

Reason for this theory: iodine is at zero, and macroalgea consumes iodine (I believe heavily?)

Since this time, I’ve taking POUNDS of cheato out and some big water changes while still monitoring nitrate and phosphate. Coral health has improved.

It’s worth noting that at the time of this test, I was dosing .3ppm phosphate a day and still getting 0 in 24 hours on a Hanna. I believe nitrate dosing was around 4ppm, but had stabilized. Just wanted to make this note as the po4 reading is artificially high due to the dosing.

Also, my potassium was low. Assuming I’ve corrected this via water changes and will monitor, but I guess I shouldn’t have been worrying about dosing Sodium nitrate instead of Potassium nitrate after all [emoji4]

Yes, I’d dose potassium, and maybe some trace elements the chaeto is likely stripping such as manganese. I’m not convinced the iodine will matter, but dosing it too is a fine experiment. [emoji3]

 

[chomoney]

Yes, I’d dose potassium, and maybe some trace elements the chaeto is likely stripping such as manganese. I’m not convinced the iodine will matter, but dosing it too is a fine experiment. [emoji3]

Thanks for the feedback!

Another aspect to the “theory” I just thought off...

I also had a significant amount of sponge die off during the same time, and I’ve read sponges can release toxins. Perhaps a contributing factor as well?