Spionid solutions?

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 2, 2016

Got some growing on an sps, found more.. Depressing day.
It's a 2 hair, very small worm, they don't get more than like 1-2 mm in tube length. Was hoping they reproduced in immediate proximity, nope. Even found a research article referencing 'boring spionid worms'. They seem to be unaffected by montipora stings. (assuming it has tried stinging them)
Other than manual removal anyone know of any natural predators?
Looks like I'm going to have to reduce feedings, sell off all my filter feeders, and maybe try to manually get rid of them. Otherwise I saw a random post about maybe a coral banded shrimp eating them.

Worse than bryopsis. :|

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 2, 2016

The first fatality...
http://reef2reef.com/threads/fine-filament-parasite-on-blue-ridge-coral.246178/

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 2, 2016

Hard to get a pic, they seem to prefer darker areas, but I found some right smack dab on top of a forest fire digi..
Kinda makes me want to scrap the hobby.. lol

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 3, 2016

Any ideas what these are? From what I can guess it's a spionid, but still can't find any pics other than the sand-grain building one. Still can't find any reports of any tube worm, polychaete, or anything else growing ON corals...

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 3, 2016

Wow, thats a mind bender. Its growing ON the coral? I have a few that grow or have grown on the rocks, one in particular.
Id love a better pic.
only thing I could think of would be acro crab, or coral shrimp. Might not work on the older ones but would eat the eggs/spores
I missed out on this one. I nailed the Id but had no time to drive.Coralliocaris sp Coral Shrimp
http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?125096-Sps-hitchiker

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 3, 2016

Ya, literally on em.. Though the blue ridge is technically a soft coral. I made frags of it and saved what I could. I'll get some pics of the monti in a few days, I believe they're a boring type so they retreat into whatever it's on when threatened. I recall seeing my sexy shrimp take out a few, but they came back..

From what I saw on the blue ridge, they slowly spread, and then where they are, the tissue slowly dies. Gonna grab some peppermint shrimp this weekend and hope.(desperately) Been using a toothbrush so far, but I think the only real hope will be to reduce feeding down to nothing. Sucks though as it's a photo/nps tank and the only thing I feed is planktonic foods. Already been planning a rebuild...

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 3, 2016

Kungpaoshizi said:
Ya, literally on em.. Though the blue ridge is technically a soft coral. I made frags of it and saved what I could. I'll get some pics of the monti in a few days, I believe they're a boring type so they retreat into whatever it's on when threatened. I recall seeing my sexy shrimp take out a few, but they came back..
From what I saw on the blue ridge, they slowly spread, and then where they are, the tissue slowly dies. Gonna grab some peppermint shrimp this weekend and hope.(desperately) Been using a toothbrush so far, but I think the only real hope will be to reduce feeding down to nothing. Sucks though as it's a photo/nps tank and the only thing I feed is planktonic foods. Already been planning a rebuild...

grim.
if the adult population is too large already the the introduction of a higher predator for control is gonna be near impossible with or without a positive ID. Thus the predation on the offspring was the only solution I could come up with.And emailing Ron Shimeck and sending him five bucks (no really look at his website) is the only place I could think for that id
You know im sure the shrimp are just gonna go for the easier meal. Kinda mind blown none of the carnivorous snails dint take care of the bad babies too.
Really situations like this are the reason Im still trying to figure out how to do the micro fauna nps hitchiker tanks. I dont think its practical with out live stock not available outside of the ocean. Sucks cuz micro flora and fauna is the only real way to feed the tunicates and sponges. Its the introduce the cats to eat the rats but they killed the birds so now theres a locus plague, and it turns out we just shouldnt have killed the wolves thing.

Man I dunno

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 3, 2016

Yea I bet its a nudibranch you need. snail killer.
Ill have to take a close look at your tank later. Do you have small pickers like Pipes and pygmy angels?
And Fwiw I watched my mandarin pull a huge spagetti worm outta the dsb, rip it to shreds and eat it. And despite the red flatworms in my sump there's non in the dt.

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 4, 2016

Heh, ya, my concern is even if I find something that will go for em I know there's some in small cracks they'll never be able reach. I think the only thing I can do other than a rebuild is constant monitoring, scrubbing, reduce particulates to nil, and slowly replace rocks. Idk..

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 4, 2016

Yea I'm a HUGE fan of the micro fauna tanks and the level of life that small too. But husbandry is a total branch as getting compatable spruces is near impossible. A wrasse for ZOA eating nudibranch pop controll is an easy fix. On the leve of the small what do you do for a parasite boring worm 4mm long. Or a parasitic copepod. What Lfs carries THAT.

Oh hey. Fwiw your right on bayer issue. In part.
At the level of the small tiny tiny bits of it will wipe out your livestock. In 99% of users tanks they don't understand or use that level of the food chain and husbandry need. so they never even see it. Renee lionfish totally sees this daily as folks look past or enjoy the hitchikers you actually want and need for system and throw them in the trash

We. You and I have animals the depend on micro fauna. Most folks have fish and corals and few to no bugs. And a normal reef tank will work that way. So a little poisoning damage in there will go unnoticed as the higher life forms are un affected. The population of food I need to be able to feed a sea fan would be wiped out in a tank at most folks dose ing rate.

Yea. I did on dose of bayer recently. super paranoid. Super lab grade rinsing bla bla.
Everything looks grat In the tank. But I count my tiny critters and they were mostly gone. My dozen 1mm oyster bed and large amphipod pop was ok so far but the bugs that are small enough to crawl on them we not.
Most folks wouldn't know. And it's not really thier fault.

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 4, 2016

Here's what I would call the secondary stage. You can see the first stage with the blue ridge above where all you see is whiskers. This is a bit further. Fwiw, this is from the frag tank that gets fed the water from the DT during a water change, so definitely some sort of reproductive broadcast happens. Like I said, pretty depressing. Kinda thinking it's going to be a rebuild with a lot of meticulous attention to rid the tank of it. After this secondary stage, tissue starts to recede around the stalks. Haven't seen the monti even send out "stinger sweepers"(digestive tract) reacting to it. Still have yet to find any similar story out there on the net.

I guess the least I can do is document it. From some of the research I found concerning boring spionid's, I expect my 18" porite to be next. Unsure of other species that will be affected.

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 5, 2016

Gads. That is depressing. Have you considered a long qt hospital tank and playing with flatworm exit? I'm not an expert in pesticide you'd have to find something that specifily targets worms I should think. Or formulate an eradication plan that doesn't harm the corals using either peroxide or freshwater although I don't think they'd respond to osmotic shock treatment The spores may.
Odd that they have no preference on species type. But you think they will hit the stony coral next?

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 5, 2016

This is the closest I've found to such a story..
https://www.auburn.edu/cosam/faculty/biology/chadwick/website/Publications_files/Weilgus et al 2006.pdf

The only thing I think I can do, other than selling 5 years worth of coral I've collected, is to setup another tank, cycle it, remove every coral from each rock/plug, do massive rinses alongside multiple coral dips, and hope. I've already got jeweler's glasses otw for 25x magnification as well to be as precise as I can be. Funny part is, at least ironic anyway, is that I believe it came in on the blue ridge and it was a coral I received from a club guy who showed up with it randomly when he was getting something from me, and just gave it to me for free. I didn't refuse as it was obviously years old and about 20-25 cubic inches. And I recall at that time, I was using bayer.. lol
Though I'm not 100% on that speculation, it started on the blue ridge and really, how many people bring a huge coral like that to a random transaction and they're like 'here ya go! it's free!' :/

I've been searching for a few days now and can't find any mention of anything like it on any forum. I think the reason I've not seen them populate though is because I only recently started collecting some nps and have started to feed the heaviest I've ever fed, all within the last few months.

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 5, 2016

Oh yea. I have some lovely examples of the hardest to kill aptasia I've ever had and a great population of colonista snails from some friendly Reefing like that.

I have only really ever skip cycled tanks. Didn't know it while I did it. San Diego has too many reefs not to.
That was my thought on the in tank solution. Skip cycle it useingbthe rock with corals on it then use a nuke in the new tank.
You have to test some treatments on the bad worms though to see what nuke is most effective.

In my slightly odd experiences a correctly skip cycled tank provides a pretty fast and stable tank really quick. Lol quick in Reefing terms. 30 days.
It's more like cloning your tank than the traditional cycling methods.

Kungpaoshizi · Aug 8, 2016

I might take some rocks out with some of them present and start testing methods in another tank.
Other than aptasiax any guesses for medications? Willing to order some to test, though I've never used meds in the tanks I have for fear of killing corals. If I could avoid a tear-down that would be awesome.

saltyfilmfolks · Aug 8, 2016

Flatworm exit would be my first place to look. peroxide and ph balanced freshwater dips and hyper salinity would be next. Aptasia x is just a way to burn them chemically. A kalk slurry will do the same.
Understanding how a toxin or compound targets a specific type of animal is way beyond me. I just dont get how FWE treatments reportedly wont kill or damage pod and shrimp invert populations. But a bayer coral rx fresh etc dip will still miss feather dusters flatworms and tube when dipping..but can nuke a tank of pods if not rinsed well.
Im told a hypersalinity of 1.045 solution will make the bugs jump out, but i honestly dont know what it would do to corals.

If your tests go well in another tank by combining a new feeding regimen with new predators, and a slow killing of colonies in QT. Its possible you cold beat it or at least control it untill its truly time to upgrade and rebuild.

CHeck out Melevsreefs he has one of the best writeups on FWE ive read. It doesnt talk so much about why it works but its a good primer on the Mini method you may use. Ive been considering the same for my coral qt. the methodology being kill the adults and young, wait for eggs to hatch, kill the mature population before they breed, repeat. the question here is, what kills worms and not corals.