Spirulina keeps returning

[bubbaque]

I am having a problem with spirulina. I have used Chemiclean a couple of times but it just keeps returning. I used Chemiclean last Monday and dosed it 1.5x recommended. It was not gone all the way in the 48hrs, so I redosed again 1.5x recommended. Sand is where most of the problem was but after the 4 days it was all clean. Its been one week and I already starting to see my sand turn the reddish color again. I do not feel this is a flow issue due to I have a gyre 130 and a gyre 150 in a 75 gallon, one on each end of the tank.

How do I get rid of this permanently?

po4 -.018
no3 - 2
alk - 8.1
calcium - 425

 

[Broadfield]

Have you tested to make sure this 2nd go around isn't actually cyano?

 

[bubbaque]

I didnt think chemiclean actually did anything to cyano, just spirulina. It looks just like the stuff I had before and I did do the test on that stuff.

 

[Broadfield]

I didnt think chemiclean actually did anything to cyano, just spirulina. It looks just like the stuff I had before and I did do the test on that stuff.

Exactly! That's why I'm asking if you tested to see if this return is actually spirulina. I'm guessing you are just assuming it's spirulina because that's what you had the first time. Cyano can look identical to spirulina, to the naked eye... and a microscope being the only way to distinguish them. I went through the same thing... only I had cyano the first time. I got rid of it with a hydrogen peroxide treatment. "It" came back a week later. So I treated again and I couldn't get rid of it. Banging my head against the wall, I decided to try Chemiclean and it destroyed it within days. Lesson learned, "it" was spirulina the 2nd go around, not cyano.

 

[bubbaque]

I am guessing it's spirulina because chemiclean actually gets rid of it for a few days. Tank will sparkle then it returns.

 

[Broadfield]

I am guessing it's spirulina because chemiclean actually gets rid of it for a few days. Tank will sparkle then it returns.

Oh, I didn't see you mention that you dosed Chemiclean again after it came back.

I don't know then. And yeah, in my experience, flow doesn't matter. I'll have sand blowing everywhere and cyano/spirulina will both still exist.

 

[bubbaque]

@twilliard Any advice?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Chemiclean contains an antibiotic that kills bacteria such as cyanobacteria.

Spirulina is a type of cyanobacteria that usually lives in freshwater, and as far as I can tell, is not usually red. I have no idea what types of spirulina grow in aquaria,a nd what color they may be.

Why do you think it is spirulina?

 

[bubbaque]

I thought if it looks like cyano but doesn't pass the peroxide test it was spirulina. Twillard said "Chemiclean is only effective against the spirulina genus".


It's more brownish black when it really starts taking off. It starts off for me the reddish color of diatoms. I do notice my tangs eat it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I thought if it looks like cyano but doesn't pass the peroxide test it was spirulina. Twillard said "Chemiclean is only effective against the spirulina genus".


It's more brownish black when it really starts taking off. It starts off for me the reddish color of diatoms. I do notice my tangs eat it.

I do not know the basis of the that claim the only certain species of cyano respond to erythromycin (it may be true, I just am not familiar with it), nor do I know how hydrogen peroxide gives speciation (again, it might, just never seen evidence).

But what I mostly don't understand is what importance difference it makes to users. It is likely some species of cyanobacteria that you have (spirulina or not), and you know what it is responding to and what it is not. It is also common and expected that if you kill cyano and do not get rid of the nutrients, it will grow back.

There are many ways to deal with cyanobacteria, and reducing nutrients (including organics) after you kill it is important to keep it from growing back.

 

[bubbaque]

I wish I knew how to keep it from coming back. On the back of the package it says it does not contain "algaecides, Erythromycin succinate or phosphates"

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I wish I knew how to keep it from coming back. On the back of the package it says it does not contain "algaecides, Erythromycin succinate or phosphates"

Right.

Doesn't that wording seem really, really strange?

It always seemed odd to us chemists.

Like a toy box saying "Contains no red cars".

But duh, maybe it contains blue ones?

Like maybe other erythromycin salts? Check wikipedia. There are lots of different types of erythromycin sold as different salt forms.

Anyway, they lost a court case in Germany where a government lab tested it and found it broke the law by containing an antibiotic which was not allowed there.

So yes, it works by containing erythromycin, which is a bactericide, but maybe not an algecide.

 

[bubbaque]

I just want it gone and not to come back.

 

[twilliard]

The key to its demise is understanding this bacteria, its size and complexity.
When using chemiclean or any type of method for most any complex form of life is to hit it HARD once.
The ability to adapt far outweighs our knowledge
How many ties have you attempted to treat this and at what what dosage OVER recommended printed amount?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Not an expert by any means. But lower nutrients are key. And Imo competition, like a refugium or algae scrubber. If its localized it may be food and waste building up on the sand. Upping you CUC or vacuuming is an option.
also take a look at what your feeding. some foods, amonos esp for coral basically contain bacteria food. Some foods in my tank will give me cycano reactions almost instantly. Marine snow(aminos vitaminc) Pe mysis frozen(vitamin c) LRS reef frenzy, but more slowly.
a healthy diverse bacterial additives in the tank might be someting to look into as well. Ive been cyano free in both my tanks for 6 months 10 in my larger tank and despite higher nutrients and some nutrient fluctuations remained so doing exactly this.

So many debate sand. Im on the clean it if its shallow, go dsb if you want it deep.

Ive never dosed chems. I dont use gfo. I have a deep sand bed.

 

[bubbaque]

I have 80 gallons total so I did 1.5x the recommended dose, so I used 12 spoons of the powder. This would be the second time I have tried the treatment. I have used a refugium with cheato but then the spirulina started to grow down there also, so I turned off the light and got rid of the cheato. I dose no aminos or anything like that but I do feed LRS reef frenzy exclusively, about two cubes a day. I would like to feed pellets but some of my fish won't eat them. I don't know if that could be causing it.

I do feel my nutrients are pretty low as it is. Even killing off the spirulina this time my nitrates only went up a tiny bit.

Could dosing a different bacteria help out compete it? Like microbacter7?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have 80 gallons total so I did 1.5x the recommended dose, so I used 12 spoons of the powder. This would be the second time I have tried the treatment. I have used a refugium with cheato but then the spirulina started to grow down there also, so I turned off the light and got rid of the cheato. I dose no aminos or anything like that but I do feed LRS reef frenzy exclusively, about two cubes a day. I would like to feed pellets but some of my fish won't eat them. I don't know if that could be causing it.

I do feel my nutrients are pretty low as it is. Even killing off the spirulina this time my nitrates only went up a tiny bit.

Could dosing a different bacteria help out compete it? Like microbacter7?

Ime yea I like bacteria. it cleans up food. Look into another meaty food too based on the fish. I actually switch foods for variety. Its trial and error quite often. I used 2little fishies marine snow on advice from friends, had even seen their tanks and watced them dump it in. 2 lil cap fulls for two days and mine broke out in red. ( I actually still use it from time to time BECAUSE its feeding bacteria just not much)

 

[jason2459]

I thought if it looks like cyano but doesn't pass the peroxide test it was spirulina. Twillard said "Chemiclean is only effective against the spirulina genus".


It's more brownish black when it really starts taking off. It starts off for me the reddish color of diatoms. I do notice my tangs eat it.

Like Randy said, Chemi clean will work against at least some types of cyano like spirulina. But it certainly works against some non-spirulina cyano variations. H2O2 does seem to break up cyanobacteria as well.

 

[bubbaque]

Chemiclean does get rid of whatever it is but then returns. Doesn't seem as bad as right now but I am watching it.

 

[jason2459]

Chemiclean does get rid of whatever it is but then returns. Doesn't seem as bad as right now but I am watching it.

If you don't fix the underlying issue the problem will come back. It could come back right away or months down the line. Hard to say. Chemiclean wont fix anything.

Here's an image I took last night of a type of spirulina and cyanobacteria next to each other. Chemi clean has effected both when I tested it out.