SPS Acro help

[Ivan Stoiljkovic]

I have 4 tanks connected through 1 sump, 3 x 180 gal frag tanks and 1 x 220 gal mixed reef.
System has been up since Feb this year. I dedicated 1 frag tank to SPS (mostly acros) knowing how difficult is to keep them alive.

All corals do fine/amazing, each tank has light/flow adjusted. For some reason Acros keep paling and slowly dying.
All the montis, digitatas and birds nests grow like crazy but acros NO.

Checked par few days ago and adjusted all radions, 24" height from the surface, everything spread evenly, par reading from 170 to 350, mostly around 250, 4 power heads provide enough flow.
PH around 8.4
Temp 80
Alk 8-12

Feeding 4-8 myses cubes per day, even feeding acro tank with reef-roids

Measured nitrates/phosphates today, 0 reading (0 since the begining)
Big refugium and a lot of lights all through out, read some places that you need higher nitrates for acros, some say ultra low.
Is it nitrates? or maybe ligth/par since I've been playing with it, but still no matter what intensity acros keep dying

Extremely confused at this point, dont know what to google any more.

Please help

 

[ChiCity]

Too much light and too little nutrients,
it’s a killer combination.

You should be at around 5 nitrates and .03 po4, some tanks run higher...
Corals need food too

 

[Ivan Stoiljkovic]

Reduce skimming operation window?
Reduce macros in the fuge?

 

[CoralWealth]

nice setup!

If you could post some pictures of your struggling acros, I am sure it will help people give some more opinions on what is going on

 

[Mattrg02]

You'll probably need to dose nitrates and phosphates until you can figure out a working combination of food and export. I had to double my feedings to keep nitrates up. Still working on keeping phosphates up, naturally.

 

[botheboss]

Alk from 8-12? Its very important to keep stable, as in no change or very little.

 

[lilchris_357]

If you are running an ultra low nutrient sys, your Alk should be between 7-8 dkh. If you want to run high Alk, you need to have PO4 and NO3 present. Of course keeping it as stable as possible.

 

[tgbaby]

I’d echo everything above regarding stability and nutrient level.

Looks like an awesome setup, do you have a build thread? Would like to see more details.

 

[Ivan Stoiljkovic]

Thanks to all for jumping on this thread,

Here is a pic of some acros, Ive been loosing them slowly, almost all of them, some montis are just stunted but holding up their color.
It takes maybe 20-30 days to completely lose color for any acro I buy.
Ive kept nutrients at 0 from beginning, I guess learning mostly from brstv 52 weeks and from most people that post their params on forums.
Upon going to Walmart - garden section and asking a lady about a stump remover, looking at me she said "A STUMP WHAT?","what is a stump"

I went on amazon and ebay ordered Monopotassium Phosphate and a stump remover (KNO3), its gonna take days for it to arrive
any immediate action I can take?
Shutting skimmer off completely, smart idea? or maybe running it for some hours a day
I have no idea which is removing it more, the fuge or the skimmer?
Which is better, skim heavy and dose pure nitrates and phosphates?
Skim low and let nitrates build up
What else is suffering with 0 nutrients, mushrooms, zoas. BTA's?

If more people interested I can upload more photos and info about the build
I just need to solve this so I can get my corals to take off.

 

[Coral Newbie]

I run my acros at alk 10.5ish with nitrates between 2-4. I agree with most of the above post low alk = low nutrients. High Alk = higher nutrients. Just find that special place and kept it consistent. I can tell when something is out of wack because I’ll start to bleach out the tips. It’s usally mean my alk is low. But that’s for my system.

 

[22bfan]

A few months ago I began loosely following the Red Sea Reef Care Recipe parameter recommendations for SPS dominant tanks and am seeing health and growth like never before.
https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-recipes/

If you scroll down a little on that page you can check out the Ultra Low Nutrient recommendations. As you can see, with 0 Phosphates and Nitrates you need to keep Alkalinity very low to avoid burning the symbiotic xooxanthellae algae that give the coral its color as well as the polyps living in the corallites.
With Ultra Low Nutrient systems you are walking a tight rope of keeping the appropriate parameter levels in exacting stability. Even slight variances can crash your system.

With elevated nitrate and phosphate in the right balance (the Red Sea recommendations for SPS dominant tanks are a great starting point) the xooxanthellae becomes thicker. Colors generally become more solid rather than the very light pastel typical of zeovit or other Ultra Low Nutrient setups. Additionally acros can tolerate a bit more parameter fluctuation when nutrients are available (of course consistent parameters are best for optimal coral vitality).
I've noticed as well that acros tolerate significantly higher light when nutrients are available. I run a 400 watt Radium MH setup and a pair of a AI Hydra 52's for sunrise/sunset ramps. When my nitrates were zero i have to raise my MH up to 24" off water surface and turn my LED program waaay down to achieve roughly 300-350 par so as not to bleach my acros. Skeletal structure would grow fast but never really color up. The areas that did have color were always dull and somewhat transparent.

After adopting these nutrient levels and upping par to 570-650 all of my sps are much happier.
Here is my protocol and parameters:
100 gallon Stock Tank with 8" deep sand bed, live rock
3 chamber sump: filter sock, skimmer, fuge chamber lit 24 hours with softball sized chaeto ball (harvested monthly by half), external brs carbon canister, small bag of purigen
Salinity: 1.025-1.026 (IO Reef Crystals - monthly 5 gallon water change)
Calcium: 8-8.5 (dosed using generic BRS Calcium Chloride)
Alkalinity: 8-8.3 (dosed using generic BRS Sodium Carbonate)
Magnesium: 1250-1400 (covered by monthly water change)
Red Sea Colors: A,B, C, D dosed every other day 4ml of each
Spectracide Stump Remover: (1 Tablespoon powder to 1 Cup of RODI Water) dosed 20ml every other day
Elos Omega Aminos: 1 dropper full every other day during peak light
550-670 PAR for 5 hours a day with sunrise/sunset ramp
Lots of random flow
Fish: Purple Tang, Hippo Tang, BiColor Angel, Onyx Snowflake Clown, Lawnmower Blenny
Inverts: Probably 10 turbo snails, tons os other unknown small snails, a bagillion bristle worms, thousands of asterina stars, loads of mysis

Here are some shots of my tank now (I'm not a photo pro so these aren't enhanced, just top down shots through an acrylic spy cylinder). As well, I have hair algae from when I had zero nitrates and high phosphates. The purple tang and nutrient balance are gradually taking care it:
LEDs only

MH

Red Acro before dosing nitrates (thin skinned)

Acros from a low nutrient system first day introduction to my tank

Starting to recover after a bit in my tank

 

[Ivan Stoiljkovic]

Truly appreciate extra info. Now it all makes sense,
I'm just wondering why so many people are proponents of ULNS including BRS where I got most of my knowledge from.
Why would you keep it low?
you can burn them, they have less color and grow slower.
Just wanted to open up some debate since I can't find some solid answers on this thing.
I think I got SPS and nutrient relation clear now

Could you share some info on LSP and Softy relation to nutrients?

 

[22bfan]

From what I understand about ULNS, the biggest plus is little to no chance of nuisance algae or cyano blooms.
Some people like a very sterile clean tank and pastel colored corals. They are able to achieve decent growth by very precise direct feeding, etc.

I don't have the obsessive personality usually required to run ULNS ;b

As for LPS and Softies, I can't really speak much to that.
I have a few zoas, palys, and gsp that has gone crazy on the darker 1/3 of my tank.
It has a single Hydra 52 that only maxes at 50% and doesn't get nearly the flow that my acros and millepora get.
From what Ive heard softies and palys can handle higher nutrient levels, but i can't verify that.

Oh, before i forget, a word of caution on the Red Sea Reef Recipe's. A friend used the NO3PO4 product and it wiped all of Nitrate and Phosphate out of his tank within a few hours. His Acros bleached and retracted polyps. It has taken weeks for them to recover. Not sure if this was light over exposure due to low nutrients or if the corals just got ticked from removing everything so quickly. A little of that stuff goes a long way apparently.

 

[Coral Newbie]

I agree with 22bfan. I use the NoPox and does every 2-3 days to keep something in my tank. If I does everyday it takes about a week to zero everything out. Stuff works too good.

 

[drawman]

Ivan give this a read. I think you've had some good advice here. The biggest red flag to me (as has been stated) is alk between 8-12. That's like saying you keep Temp between 70-80 degrees for SPS keepers. What do you currently keep it at and how do you supplement it?

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.263/

 

[Ivan Stoiljkovic]

I read the article, lots of good info, I can see now that others got their nitrates 5-30 without a problem
I dont believe its the alk swing, its more of a no nutrient problem.