SPS acros dying from tips.

tundraguy1106 · Feb 15, 2021

90's reefer said:
14 hrs of light?
I only run my light for 9 hrs total.

Yes but they’re only intense from 1230pm - 4pm. I can always change that.

tundraguy1106 · Feb 15, 2021

90's reefer said:
14 hrs of light?
I only run my light for 9 hrs total.

Yes but they’re only intense from 1230pm - 4pm. I can always change that

dwest said:
In the meantime, I would run GAC in your tank to help reduce possible toxin.

i run 2 filter bags full of GAC (approx 2 cups) in my sump return chamber. Changed them about 2-3 weeks ago.

tundraguy1106 · Feb 15, 2021

I also run a 57 watt aqua UV sterilizer 24/7 that’s plumbed into my return.

X-37B · Feb 15, 2021

I would run peak at 8hrs.
Ramp up only need to be 1/2 hr, imo.
You could run 1/2 hr before to 1/2 after then peak leds for 3 hrs for max light them ramp down 1/2 before off and 1/2 hr after.

X-37B · Feb 15, 2021

90's reefer said:
Upload to you tube first the copy.

Yes

vic5hands · Feb 15, 2021

what I can see your lacking flow. SPS like water flow

tundraguy1106 · Feb 15, 2021

vic5hands said:
what I can see your lacking flow. SPS like water flow

Dual maxspect gyre 330’s (70% max) on opposite ends, 1 Nero 5 behind the reef and the returns.

dwest · Feb 16, 2021

The video is working for me. I can’t tell what kind they are though but I would guess they are amphidinium based on the fact they seem to be in the sand mostly. If you want to ID them, start another thread with “help with Dino ID“ as a title.

You will hear lots of ways to get rid of them. I will tell you what I would do. In fact, this is what I just did a couple of years ago on my 180 fighting amphidinium.

It sounds like you have good phosphate and nitrate numbers. I would just make sure that you are using reliable test kits (Hanna ulr phosphorous for example). Make sure both are measurable. If you are using gfo, carbon dosing, or other ways to reduce nutrients, stop.I would stop aminos and phyto as well.

Next, temporarily, I would plumb the UV directly from the display and back at a flow of about 300 gph. I use a maxijet 1200 powerhead for my aqua UV 57 watt. Slow flow and directly to and from tank is important. @saltyhog does this as well (I believe he uses a small since pump)

The last, and hardest step for me, was I had to remove my sand. I sucked a little bit out every couple of days for about 2 weeks. My tank turned around very quickly right after this.

I would replace GAC weekly for now.

Good luck. Here’s my tank a couple years past dinos. You can see the mj1200 in the top left corner that feeds my UV.

tundraguy1106 · Feb 16, 2021

dwest said:
The video is working for me. I can’t tell what kind they are though but I would guess they are amphidinium based on the fact they seem to be in the sand mostly. If you want to ID them, start another thread with “help with Dino ID“ as a title.

You will hear lots of ways to get rid of them. I will tell you what I would do. In fact, this is what I just did a couple of years ago on my 180 fighting amphidinium.

It sounds like you have good phosphate and nitrate numbers. I would just make sure that you are using reliable test kits (Hanna ulr phosphorous for example). Make sure both are measurable. If you are using gfo, carbon dosing, or other ways to reduce nutrients, stop.I would stop aminos and phyto as well.

Next, temporarily, I would plumb the UV directly from the display and back at a flow of about 300 gph. I use a maxijet 1200 powerhead for my aqua UV 57 watt. Slow flow and directly to and from tank is important. @saltyhog does this as well (I believe he uses a small since pump)

The last, and hardest step for me, was I had to remove my sand. I sucked a little bit out every couple of days for about 2 weeks. My tank turned around very quickly right after this.

I would replace GAC weekly for now.

Good luck. Here’s my tank a couple years past dinos. You can see the mj1200 in the top left corner that feeds my UV.

I use Hanna test kits for both alk and phosphates. Plump bing the uber will take some configuration because in case of a power outage I don’t want the siphoning affect to empty my tank. As for sand removal, am I removing the sand completely? I have a bunch of wrasses who bury in the sand as well as a whole cleanup crew (snails conches) that all use the sand bed.

dwest · Feb 16, 2021

tundraguy1106 said:
I use Hanna test kits for both alk and phosphates. Plump bing the uber will take some configuration because in case of a power outage I don’t want the siphoning affect to empty my tank. As for sand removal, am I removing the sand completely? I have a bunch of wrasses who bury in the sand as well as a whole cleanup crew (snails conches) that all use the sand bed.

I would post the video on another thread to get a positive ID first. Amphidinium are tough and you might not need to do what I did if they are easier types.

My UV hangs off the back with some 1/2” PVC piping. It gets fed with a powerhead then right back to the tank. It might be something you want to do if you head that route.

I feel your pain with the sandbed removal. It’s the last thing I did because I didn’t want to do it. I have a little sand left. But it’s the stuff I couldn’t get to behind the rocks. I don’t think my conchs and snails care, but your wrasses would. You might keep a bowl of sand in the tank for them for now.

If your snails are alive, I’m wondering if dinos are your problem. Snails were one of the hardest things to keep alive for me when I had dinos.

tundraguy1106 · Feb 16, 2021

dwest said:
I would post the video on another thread to get a positive ID first. Amphidinium are tough and you might not need to do what I did if they are easier types.

My UV hangs off the back with some 1/2” PVC piping. It gets fed with a powerhead then right back to the tank. It might be something you want to do if you head that route.

I feel your pain with the sandbed removal. It’s the last thing I did because I didn’t want to do it. I have a little sand left. But it’s the stuff I couldn’t get to behind the rocks. I don’t think my conchs and snails care, but your wrasses would. You might keep a bowl of sand in the tank for them for now.

If your snails are alive, I’m wondering if dinos are your problem. Snails were one of the hardest things to keep alive for me when I had dinos.

From my research certain dinos aren’t poisonous. I mean I have the occasional snails die but nothing massive or what would cause concern. I didn’t even know I had Dinos till yesterday when looking for answers about my SPS.

Skynyrd Fish · Feb 16, 2021

My money is on the rusty magnet. Get a bag of cuprasorb. It will suck out any metals. Also I will recommend an ATI water test. It also tests your ro/di. My zero tds ro actually had copper in it, and ati caught it. Good luck. I also agree with lowering the light period. Nice looking tank.

RC Corals · Feb 16, 2021

Not sure anyone has asked, but how long has the tank been up and running?

Everything looks fairly pale and washed out. If the tank hasn't been up and running very long I'd actually suggest backing up and going more basic as far as what you're doing. Find out what the tank really needs and adjust for just that.

Ernie C · Feb 16, 2021

For what it's worth, my acros had tip damage a while back, it turned out it was alk burn due to low nutrients and higher alk. My alk was not really that high, between 8.5-9 but I had zero PO4 and NO3. I started over feeding fish and dosing to get nutrients detectable and corals recovered and colored back up. I believe dinos also thrive in zero nutrient environments. I lost a couple of small frags but the larger sps colonies eventually grew tissue back over their tips. I now try to keep alk at 7.5 and detectable nutrients.

ScottB · Feb 16, 2021

I am pretty sure those are large cell amphidinium, but look for a confirm from @taricha.

Good news: they carry very little toxin. Bad news: they have the strongest defenses. Tough buggers to get rid of. But they aren't much more than an eyesore in most cases. There is a dedicated thread for these dinos here. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/
The general themes are:
a) keeping nutrient up
b) enhancing competitors (diatoms via silica dosing)
c) introducing more/different bacteria

All that said, I think your SPS issues are likely separate from these dinos -- unless they are dragging down nutrients.

I was about to ask the same question as @RC Corals . How old is system? How much live rock was used to start? Do you have sponges growing? How is your coralline growth?

If the answers to these questions suggests the system is mature, I would ship out an ICP so we can rule in/out any chemistry issues.

saltyhog · Feb 16, 2021

tundraguy1106 said:
Does it work?

Those are definitely dinos. Magnification is too low and too little detail to definitively ID them, but it would appear from their shape and movement to be either amphidinium or prorocentrum. Because of the toxicity, I'm going to guess they are prorocentrum. Amphidinium is not usually toxic and usually stays off of the rock.

Dosing silicates to cause a competing diatom bloom, dosing phyto to increase biodiversity, keeping nutrients elevated (5-10 for NO3 and 0.06-0.12 for PO4) are the foundation for treating them. You could do manual removal by vacuuming them off and filtering the water through a 10 micron sock and returning the water to the system. Water changes seem to be counter productive. If you don't mind bare bottom dwest's recommendation to remove the sand bed is very helpful for amphidinium (I'm not sure how effective it is for prorocentrum).

VermontReefs · Feb 16, 2021

tundraguy1106 said:
From my research certain dinos aren’t poisonous. I mean I have the occasional snails die but nothing massive or what would cause concern. I didn’t even know I had Dinos till yesterday when looking for answers about my SPS.

In regards to your rock did you start with only dry rock? Did you use any live rock to start or seed?

tundraguy1106 · Feb 16, 2021

Skynyrd Fish said:
My money is on the rusty magnet. Get a bag of cuprasorb. It will suck out any metals. Also I will recommend an ATI water test. It also tests your ro/di. My zero tds ro actually had copper in it, and ati caught it. Good luck. I also agree with lowering the light period. Nice looking tank.

Thanks, yeah I’ve been looking at those test too. Never ends in this hobby! Lol

tundraguy1106 · Feb 16, 2021

ScottB said:
I am pretty sure those are large cell amphidinium, but look for a confirm from @taricha.

Good news: they carry very little toxin. Bad news: they have the strongest defenses. Tough buggers to get rid of. But they aren't much more than an eyesore in most cases. There is a dedicated thread for these dinos here. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/
The general themes are:
a) keeping nutrient up
b) enhancing competitors (diatoms via silica dosing)
c) introducing more/different bacteria

All that said, I think your SPS issues are likely separate from these dinos -- unless they are dragging down nutrients.

I was about to ask the same question as @RC Corals . How old is system? How much live rock was used to start? Do you have sponges growing? How is your coralline growth?

If the answers to these questions suggests the system is mature, I would ship out an ICP so we can rule in/out any chemistry issues.

Sponges all over my sump (tiny white ones),good coralline algae. Tank is almost 2 years old. I usually siphon the sandbed during water changes (once a month/ every 2-3 weeks) and stir it up once a week. Should I maybe leave it alone and let diatoms build up?

tundraguy1106 · Feb 16, 2021

saltyhog said:
Those are definitely dinos. Magnification is too low and too little detail to definitively ID them, but it would appear from their shape and movement to be either amphidinium or prorocentrum. Because of the toxicity, I'm going to guess they are prorocentrum. Amphidinium is not usually toxic and usually stays off of the rock.

Dosing silicates to cause a competing diatom bloom, dosing phyto to increase biodiversity, keeping nutrients elevated (5-10 for NO3 and 0.06-0.12 for PO4) are the foundation for treating them. You could do manual removal by vacuuming them off and filtering the water through a 10 micron sock and returning the water to the system. Water changes seem to be counter productive. If you don't mind bare bottom dwest's recommendation to remove the sand bed is very helpful for amphidinium (I'm not sure how effective it is for prorocentrum).

I have three sand dwelling wrasses so that isn’t an option. No Dinos on the live rock. Patches of cyano but very little.