SPS and Biopellets

[creefer]

I started bio pellets 3 weeks ago using 25% of the recommended dosage. I have not seen any reduction in the algae on the sand bed or glass. I'm running about 2 tbl spns of rowaphos in a reactor that I change every 3-4 weeks. I'm still getting undetectable results on phosphate and nitrate but the appearance of the tank tells me they are present in some form. I've been dosing MB7 and KZ Zeo Bak every other day at half the recomended rate. I dose MB7, then Zeo Bak 2 days later, then back to MB7.

Other observations are that I'm getting little difference in skimmate. I have a very small patch of cyano that's started and plan to get some Special Blend to combat that issue. Water is crystal clear, more clear than ever. Since the appearance of cyano, I have reduced the flow in the reactor a bit to just a gentle tumble. We shall see what happens over the next few weeks.

 

[Dowtish]

I started bio pellets 3 weeks ago using 25% of the recommended dosage. I have not seen any reduction in the algae on the sand bed or glass. I'm running about 2 tbl spns of rowaphos in a reactor that I change every 3-4 weeks. I'm still getting undetectable results on phosphate and nitrate but the appearance of the tank tells me they are present in some form. I've been dosing MB7 and KZ Zeo Bak every other day at half the recomended rate. I dose MB7, then Zeo Bak 2 days later, then back to MB7.

Other observations are that I'm getting little difference in skimmate. I have a very small patch of cyano that's started and plan to get some Special Blend to combat that issue. Water is crystal clear, more clear than ever. Since the appearance of cyano, I have reduced the flow in the reactor a bit to just a gentle tumble. We shall see what happens over the next few weeks.

So far you sound like you are doing everything right. Did you have undetectable phosphates when you started running the pellets? And what test kit are you using?

 

[creefer]

So far you sound like you are doing everything right. Did you have undetectable phosphates when you started running the pellets? And what test kit are you using?

Yes, I did. I am using salifert kits and I think that I got undetectable results because my chaeto was growing like crazy consuming all detectable phosphates and nitrates. Like I said, I used maybe 25% of the recommended volume of pellets in my TLF 150 reactor. I did slow the flow a bit in hopes of helping combat the little cyano I got. Also picked up some Special Blend at lunch today so I have it in the event I need it.

 

[Dowtish]

I have run EcoBak for almost 2 years and I feed very heavy to my fish, and have zero nitrates(salifert) and 0.03 phos(hanna) but I still have to scrape my glass every 3 days fwiw.

I would run the pellets you have for another 2 weeks to allow them to fully colonize, and then add another 1/4 amount of the recommended amount. The more media you add the better they seem to tumble, even at a slow rate.

 

[creefer]

I have run EcoBak for almost 2 years and I feed very heavy to my fish, and have zero nitrates(salifert) and 0.03 phos(hanna) but I still have to scrape my glass every 3 days fwiw.

I would run the pellets you have for another 2 weeks to allow them to fully colonize, and then add another 1/4 amount of the recommended amount. The more media you add the better they seem to tumble, even at a slow rate.

Thanks, Chris. I assumed I would have to still clean the glass every few days. It's the dusting of crap on the sand bed that I find most annoying. In any case, I plan to do as you suggest. I wanted this process to go slowly because of all the horror stories I've read about it. I think that's the result of people just jumping all over the craze and not taking it slow.

 

[Dowtish]

That is exactly what has happened IMO. People are not willing to do the right amount of research to actually understand what the pellets do and are capable of. Although I can understand wanting to get rid of algae and getting parameters down to where they should be, but we all know nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

 

[Jon Warner]

Just to clarify a few things

1) When people talk about "bio-pellets" please name the brand because NOT ALL these solid polymer pellet products are the same.

2) NO3 is produced constantly in an aquarium, every minute of every day. So the bacteria that consume PO4 are working 24/7.

3) PO4 in general, is ADDED to an aquarium via top-off water, food and as an impurity.

4) "Bio-Pellets" don't REMOVE PO4. PO4 is removed when your skimmer removes bacterial bio-mass from the water column that is produced by the solid polymer pellets.

5) In rare instances, if NO3 or PO4 hits near ZERO the bacterial action can slow down until more NO3 or PO4 is available. SO this is why we discourage use of GFO, otherwise NO3 may not be reduced. But if PO4 is still high after NO3 hits zero, just run a little bit of GFO temporarily.

If you're having problems with PO4 accumulating while NO3 drops, you need to look at your export system closely.

GFO removes PO4 by bonding with it and then you remove the GFO and dispose of it. When you harvest macroalgae you're removing PO4 from your system. The bacteria that consume solid polymer form little clumps of bio-mass that are sheared off of the surface of the solid polymer pellet. This bio-mass enters the water stream and immediately picks up additional bacteria in the water stream, possibly some proteins and carbonate particles and is a) skimmed out or b) settled out.

If your bio-mass settles out instead of being skimmed the PO4 is NOT removed from the water stream and will be a localized source of organics where it settles out. Settled out organics can lead to Cyano outbreaks.

So the KEY TO SOLID POLYMER use is to focus on EXPORT

I kept this in mind while formulating ecoBAK and while writing the Patent application. The solid polymer should have specific properties that facilitate the export.

So, bottom line...

1) Don't excessively agitate/tumble your solid polymer pellets.

2) Maintain high flow rates IN THE SYSTEM (not the bio-reactor) to prevent organics from "settling out" in your system

3) Use a properly sized/rated/high quality protein skimmer.

4) Consider plumbing your reactor output into your skimmer intake or at least into the skimmer compartment.

5) When starting out, use a partial dose of solid polymer pellets and add more every 1-2 weeks.

In summation, the bacteria is working. If your PO4 doesn't make it into your collection cup you have work to do. Speaking of ecoBAK (I can't speak for the others) I can say it really is that easy. And no you don't have to be a chemist to use it in an aquarium. As long as people understand the basic principles behind its function it's an "auto-pilot" method of aquarium filtration suitable for ALL marine fish and reef aquariums.

 

[Jon Warner]

In addition,

Liquid Carbon dosing is an inferior alternative to solid Carbon use.

1) When you add liquid Carbon to a system the Carbon source goes into solution and proceeds to feed every organism contacting the water stream including algae on your rocks and substrate. Solid Carbon use ADDS NOTHING to the water (unless you break the rule above about excess tumble)

2) Liquid Carbon dosing causes a temporary condition in the system where there is an excess of organic C which causes a small bacterial bloom which dies off or hopefully is exported. If you could look at a graph of bacterial activity with Liquid Carbon dosing you would see a spike and dip after every application. Solid Carbon use produces a flat line on the graph. Solid Carbon is only consumed as bacterial activity dictates. If you have very few nutrients in your system you will have very little Solid Carbon consumed and with high nutrients available, the Solid Carbon will be consumed more rapidly. So Solid Carbon automatically supports bacterial activity depending on nutrients available. This in itself is a marked contrast to Liquid Carbon dosing.


One last thing, on Saturday November 3rd I'm speaking at the 2012 NJ Reefers "Frag Swap" in Edison, NJ. We're expecting up to 2000 attendees and ecoBAK will be the topic of discussion. So if you're in the area and want to stop by, come on down.

 

[Troylee]

Listen to that man!!^^^^^ that's the most detailed explanation I have ever read on pellets..

 

[Giancarlo]

Any ideas where i can get ecoBak in Canada?

 

[Jon Warner]

Listen to that man!!^^^^^ that's the most detailed explanation I have ever read on pellets..

thank you! That's very kind.

 

[Jon Warner]

Any ideas where i can get ecoBak in Canada?

We're working on Canadian distribution now, if you're unable to source it contact me directly and I will make sure you can get it.

 

[Pkunk35]

Just to clarify a few things

1) When people talk about "bio-pellets" please name the brand because NOT ALL these solid polymer pellet products are the same.

2) NO3 is produced constantly in an aquarium, every minute of every day. So the bacteria that consume PO4 are working 24/7.

3) PO4 in general, is ADDED to an aquarium via top-off water, food and as an impurity.

4) "Bio-Pellets" don't REMOVE PO4. PO4 is removed when your skimmer removes bacterial bio-mass from the water column that is produced by the solid polymer pellets.

5) In rare instances, if NO3 or PO4 hits near ZERO the bacterial action can slow down until more NO3 or PO4 is available. SO this is why we discourage use of GFO, otherwise NO3 may not be reduced. But if PO4 is still high after NO3 hits zero, just run a little bit of GFO temporarily.

If you're having problems with PO4 accumulating while NO3 drops, you need to look at your export system closely.

GFO removes PO4 by bonding with it and then you remove the GFO and dispose of it. When you harvest macroalgae you're removing PO4 from your system. The bacteria that consume solid polymer form little clumps of bio-mass that are sheared off of the surface of the solid polymer pellet. This bio-mass enters the water stream and immediately picks up additional bacteria in the water stream, possibly some proteins and carbonate particles and is a) skimmed out or b) settled out.

If your bio-mass settles out instead of being skimmed the PO4 is NOT removed from the water stream and will be a localized source of organics where it settles out. Settled out organics can lead to Cyano outbreaks.

So the KEY TO SOLID POLYMER use is to focus on EXPORT

I kept this in mind while formulating ecoBAK and while writing the Patent application. The solid polymer should have specific properties that facilitate the export.

So, bottom line...

1) Don't excessively agitate/tumble your solid polymer pellets.

2) Maintain high flow rates IN THE SYSTEM (not the bio-reactor) to prevent organics from "settling out" in your system

3) Use a properly sized/rated/high quality protein skimmer.

4) Consider plumbing your reactor output into your skimmer intake or at least into the skimmer compartment.

5) When starting out, use a partial dose of solid polymer pellets and add more every 1-2 weeks.

In summation, the bacteria is working. If your PO4 doesn't make it into your collection cup you have work to do. Speaking of ecoBAK (I can't speak for the others) I can say it really is that easy. And no you don't have to be a chemist to use it in an aquarium. As long as people understand the basic principles behind its function it's an "auto-pilot" method of aquarium filtration suitable for ALL marine fish and reef aquariums.

Jon, you just convinced me to try EcoBak pellets in my next system.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[azjohnny]

there is a reationship between phosphates and nitrates, biopellets consume more nitrates to phosphates at about a 16/1 ratio and once the nitrate level gets eliminated the bacteria start to die off, since they are not needed and thats when the phosphate level will rise. To combat this you can dose phosphates to keep the bacteria colony up.

Corals do need a certain amount of nitrates and phosphates to survive, IMO good levels are

Nitrate -5
Phospahates-<.02

when your levels get too low or the levels drop to fast that is when the corals crash,

IMO the best reactors are recirculation types, with them you can control the tumbling and the effluent seperatly. You can make one out of a calcium reactor there are videos on youtube for a DIY

If your nitrates drop too low you can decrease the effluent ( this is the gas pedal)

 

[creefer]

@Dowtish...you are so right....

@Jon....I agree with most of your statements, which is why I'm running just a bit of GFO with the pellets I'm using. I will be moving to your product soon, actually. Right now I'm using NPX pellets. I have been following your thread and have decided that I'm going to try EcoBak. I just have not ordered it yet.

Your explanation of how this all works is fantastic.

Thank you.

 

[Toomnymods]

Why does everyone stop using biopellets? Does the biopellets stop removing phosphate or something?

 

[creefer]

Why does everyone stop using biopellets? Does the biopellets stop removing phosphate or something?

Good question.....

My guess is that they jumped in to quickly without understanding what can happen to the system.