SPS and LED - Can they be a show stopper?

seastar · Sep 9, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
Wow. Whole lotta boom going on!
Fwiw I'm at macna right this minute. The led industry is definatly responding to our concerns. The lenses are different. The reflector styles are being used differently. Some of the led don't even have lenses.

And man oh man the aurora it a thing of beauty! No lens led with t 5. !!!!!!!
Looks like a Ferrari and I wonder if it performs like one.

I am so jealous! Would love to be there right now

Any insider info from Aqua Illumination there about updates to their LEDs?

FMF0331 · Sep 9, 2016

My SPS LED ... Elos 70 tank

reeferfoxx · Sep 9, 2016

Is everyone forgetting that there are more options to LED than the small cluster puck LEDs that people buy for $600-$800 per unit? Orphek LEDs are a great option for full spread light that mimics T5 lighting. No supplementing needed. Honestly I don't understand the point in buying a bunch of Radions just to supplement some cheap T5s. I just don't get it lol

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 9, 2016

reeferfoxx said:
Is everyone forgetting that there are more options to LED than the small cluster puck LEDs that people buy for $600-$800 per unit? Orphek LEDs are a great option for full spread light that mimics T5 lighting. No supplementing needed. Honestly I don't understand the point in buying a bunch of Radions just to supplement some cheap T5s. I just don't get it lol

It's the difficulty of the transition to led and the technology. Just like for me when we went from carbon arc to a halide to fluorescent and now led. The chemistry and engineering involved to get the spectrum just right is reall really hard. T5 is an analog. Led is some analog with a filter. That's tricky stuff. A dye on a filter can give a very narrow frequency a t5 by nature gives a wider range of frequency. And a bunch of manufacturers reall just jumped on the bandwagon with dollars in mind not coral.
Plus there is an asthtic their to each of the lights some have grown accustomed to.
And and fashion. A single kessel looks cool. If it's not placed right. It shadows. Hard.

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 9, 2016

seastar said:
I am so jealous! Would love to be there right now Any insider info from Aqua Illumination there about updates to their LEDs?

Haven't got there yet. But the kessel guy tripped out hard when I pulled out my meter. I was a little taken aback and felt bad. But then he really responded and we started to get pretty in depth with what they are doing now.
Btw the new ap700 is pretty cool.

reeferfoxx · Sep 9, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
It's the difficulty of the transition to led and the technology. Just like for me when we went from carbon arc to a halide to fluorescent and now led. The chemistry and engineering involved to get the spectrum just right is reall really hard. T5 is an analog. Led is some analog with a filter. That's tricky stuff. A dye on a filter can give a very narrow frequency a t5 by nature gives a wider range of frequency. And a bunch of manufacturers reall just jumped on the bandwagon with dollars in mind not coral.
Plus there is an asthtic their to each of the lights some have grown accustomed to.
And and fashion. A single kessel looks cool. If it's not placed right. It shadows. Hard.

Well, and thats the thing too, about the kessil. I think peoples perception places all LED on equal playing field. A chinese black box is inferior to Radion because of cost and build. When actually both lights are completely different for the purpose. I see Radions as glorified LPS growers and chinese black box as low end SPS growers. Some Kessils are a cheaper glorified LPS growers and Ocean revive is a cheaper glorified SPS grower. Does that make sense? Small clusters or COB LED is ment for softies and LPS where as SPS need spread which those small clusters don't provide. People need to look at LED as having more options to coral than T5.

sawdonkey · Sep 9, 2016

I think spread of the LEDs is very important. I used to have evergrows running long-way down the center of my 24 inch wide tank. The fixtures are only 8 inches wide, so I grew coral just fine directly under them, but the front and back if my tank were dark and struggled to grow coral.

To remedy this, I bought four Ocean Revives and hung them front to back. Now, I have sixteen inches of coverage instead of eight and can grow coral anywhere. Ive been using them for almost two years and don't se myself changing until they die, but even then, they are easy to diagnose and fix.

reeferfoxx · Sep 9, 2016

sawdonkey said:
I think spread of the LEDs is very important. I used to have evergrows running long-way down the center of my 24 inch wide tank. The fixtures are only 8 inches wide, so I grew coral just fine directly under them, but the front and back if my tank were dark and struggled to grow coral.

To remedy this, I bought four Ocean Revives and hung them front to back. Now, I have sixteen inches of coverage instead of eight and can grow coral anywhere. Ive been using them for almost two years and don't se myself changing until they die, but even then, they are easy to diagnose and fix.

Exactly! And with the amount you put into those evergrows and ocean revives, you could have went with the Orphek V3 which is attractive lighting and spread for your purpose. Assuming you went the SPS route. Otherwise if your tank was LPS dominant some nice Radions, Kessils or AI Hydras would have looked really nice. Seriously though, if you can afford it, getting multiples of either radion, kessil or AIs you can successfully overlap them for SPS or Mixed reef.

Scarybo · Sep 9, 2016

JMacedo said:
Solely Hydra52s here...

Amazing Tank. Nice to see what can be done with LED's

Psiber_Syn · Sep 9, 2016

@JMacedo I so want that Christmas tree worm piece

saltyfilmfolks · Sep 9, 2016

reeferfoxx said:
Well, and thats the thing too, about the kessil. I think peoples perception places all LED on equal playing field. A chinese black box is inferior to Radion because of cost and build. When actually both lights are completely different for the purpose. I see Radions as glorified LPS growers and chinese black box as low end SPS growers. Some Kessils are a cheaper glorified LPS growers and Ocean revive is a cheaper glorified SPS grower. Does that make sense? Small clusters or COB LED is ment for softies and LPS where as SPS need spread which those small clusters don't provide. People need to look at LED as having more options to coral than T5.

Mmmmm yes and no. IMO any tool used correctly is a good tool. Most IMO aren't using a Radion correctly same for t5 I'd guess. The only limiting factor I belive is intensity or higher par.
I'm in lectures all day it's why I'm here but after pulling the meter out and manufacturers being pretty cool about it. I think I'll be able to tell a lot more about what can do what.
Fwiw unless the spectrum of the ap 700 is amazing. I'm not so sure it'll do high light corrals well. At the top of the water is 35k lux at 12in. But it's really even spread on a 48 in tank. The even spread from two lil emitters was pretty amazing.

sawdonkey · Sep 9, 2016

reeferfoxx said:
Exactly! And with the amount you put into those evergrows and ocean revives, you could have went with the Orphek V3 which is attractive lighting and spread for your purpose. Assuming you went the SPS route. Otherwise if your tank was LPS dominant some nice Radions, Kessils or AI Hydras would have looked really nice. Seriously though, if you can afford it, getting multiples of either radion, kessil or AIs you can successfully overlap them for SPS or Mixed reef.

I don't think so. I've barely got $1k into both the evergrows and the OR combined. What would four Radions cost, greater than $2500, right? For the same, or maybe even worse results, no thanks. I don't see the point?

I could buy another set of brand new OR and Evergrows and still have less invested than one set of Radions.

Bruce Burnett · Sep 9, 2016

Here is a link you may like https://orphek.com/project-atlantik-reef-tank-featured-in-uks-ultramarine-magazine/. I am running 2 of these over my 250 gallon display They have a new version out version 3+ The new version does cost more that Radions or Hydra but you can get away with less fixtures and go much deeper on the tank 40". I have a brad new 72" HQI metal halide with T5 with led moon lights in the box never used. I did not want to need a chiller.

JMacedo · Sep 9, 2016

Scarybo said:
Amazing Tank. Nice to see what can be done with LED's

Thank you very much!

Psiber_Syn said:
@JMacedo I so want that Christmas tree worm piece

eheheh Mine are about 4 years old but they are on sale here in Bangkok nowadays. The hard thing is to avoid fish that has a taste for them.

Psiber_Syn · Sep 9, 2016

How bout mailing me some then lol

Salty1962 · Sep 10, 2016

justingraham said:
Can I see ur hybrid set up please??

Here is a quick phone shot, the T5s are in front and the Radions are in the back.

reeferfoxx · Sep 10, 2016

saltyfilmfolks said:
Mmmmm yes and no. IMO any tool used correctly is a good tool. Most IMO aren't using a Radion correctly same for t5 I'd guess. The only limiting factor I belive is intensity or higher par.
I'm in lectures all day it's why I'm here but after pulling the meter out and manufacturers being pretty cool about it. I think I'll be able to tell a lot more about what can do what.
Fwiw unless the spectrum of the ap 700 is amazing. I'm not so sure it'll do high light corrals well. At the top of the water is 35k lux at 12in. But it's really even spread on a 48 in tank. The even spread from two lil emitters was pretty amazing.

I agree with that. I like the ap700. I think again it's well suited for mixed reefs with not so high light SPS. We can't put all SPS on the same field as some are just as hardy as lps. But, it's an attractive light. I see now why people would have to supplement. As the aquarist matures, so does the level of reefing.

sawdonkey said:
I don't think so. I've barely got $1k into both the evergrows and the OR combined. What would four Radions cost, greater than $2500, right? For the same, or maybe even worse results, no thanks. I don't see the point?

I could buy another set of brand new OR and Evergrows and still have less invested than one set of Radions.

I totally agreed with you! I guess I wasn't making my point. The Orpheks start about $1k imported. I look at them as like the Radion for SPS. Just my opinion. They are popular in Europe for sure. What you purchased is a great option and setup for a SPS dominant tank. And were able to save money. Which most SPS tank love a little money saving here and there. With coral costs, dosing and test kits it gets pricey.

My point about the Radions, Kessil and AI is they are really cool looking LED. And unless you have said, $2500(give or take), for multiple fixtures there purpose is limit. Because having that many would allow better light penetration, dispersion, and over all illumination.

Salty1962 said:
Here is a quick phone shot, the T5s are in front and the Radions are in the back.

Your purple stylo is huge!

RONBATTLE · Sep 10, 2016

I AM SOOOO EXTREMELY JEALOUS

JMacedo said:
Solely Hydra52s here...

RONBATTLE · Sep 10, 2016

Squamosa said:
All this negative talk on other threads about 'pop' when we should really be talking about 'BOOOM'

But seriously, here's a shot of my system under Radion Gen 3 Pro's and 4 x 54W T5 supplements!

Excuse the dirty glass

I HAVE THE RADION XR15W PRO ON A 45G CUBE BUT I STRUGGLE WITH SPS, COSIDERING GOING BACK TO T5

Salty1962 · Sep 10, 2016

reeferfoxx said:
I agree with that. I like the ap700. I think again it's well suited for mixed reefs with not so high light SPS. We can't put all SPS on the same field as some are just as hardy as lps. But, it's an attractive light. I see now why people would have to supplement. As the aquarist matures, so does the level of reefing.

I totally agreed with you! I guess I wasn't making my point. The Orpheks start about $1k imported. I look at them as like the Radion for SPS. Just my opinion. They are popular in Europe for sure. What you purchased is a great option and setup for a SPS dominant tank. And were able to save money. Which most SPS tank love a little money saving here and there. With coral costs, dosing and test kits it gets pricey.

My point about the Radions, Kessil and AI is they are really cool looking LED. And unless you have said, $2500(give or take), for multiple fixtures there purpose is limit. Because having that many would allow better light penetration, dispersion, and over all illumination.

Your purple stylo is huge!

That's a ReefGen Milka I got when they spoke at our club a year ago, it was a frag that was 2". It's a fast grower. I have a large Acro Crab who lives in it. He guards it with a passion. I tried to put a Pink with green polyp Stylo by it and he kicked it out even when I glue it. Funny..