SPS and Nitrate! Where do you keep it?

[GoVols]

I just can't decide what to do in regards to monitoring.

You have the trident (that you can't get easily).

Kh director.

Mindstream.

Alkatronic.

Best bang for your buck is probably the trident. If you already run an Apex. Which I do.

The mindstream has killer features but has the monthly service charge.

I already have 3 spare heads on one of my GHL dosers so the director would be the cheapest option for me but then again I like the fact that trident gives you calcium and mag as well.

So I'm completely torn I guess is what I'm saying. I don't think it's a lazy thing at all Freddie. Added stability and the benefit of knowing much more about your tank and what is going on whether you are home or not.

Alkatronic is great for pairing up with an cal reactor, because an cal reactor maintains calcium too.


lol
Love Mindstream... but that monthly fee feels like an noose around my neck.

Things are changing so fast.

Focustronic

Mastertronic with Alkatronic

Cal
Mag
Alk
Nitrates
Phosphates

Don't know when Mastertronic will be out.

Trident maybe your best fit.

Kyle,
I'm so done with hardware for 2019... ;Hilarious

 

[RedSea500MaxS]

Large tank10 to 20 nitrates so corals can eat. And feed them. My humble newbie opinion.

Good luck. Watch them they will tell you!

 

[CMO]

1-5 ppm and have very good color on all acros at these levels.

 

[bar|none]

I have been waiting for someone to point out how little fun it is to test K with hobby test kits. Just the cleaning of the vials afterwards makes it worth paying for Mindstream. I’d pay someone $10 a month just to test K a few times. I got caught doing water changes with hw marine mix that had the KCl left out of the mix. Killed all sorts of corals until I got out the K test kit.

Srry beginner question but what is this witchery? I did see Potassium as needed in a Triton ICP test which I did dose but can you explain further why we need to pay attention and how to test ongoing? What should my attention be to this? Thx in advance.

 

[HotRocks]

Srry beginner question but what is this witchery? I did see Potassium as needed in a Triton ICP test which I did dose but can you explain further why we need to pay attention and how to test ongoing? What should my attention be to this? Thx in advance.

IMO it really is another one of those parameters you are going to get people that swear by testing/dosing and others that maintain beautiful reefs and coloration that will tell you they have never messed with it.

Most of the normal test kit companies out there make a kit for it and there are several potassium supplements. I have the salifert kit and brightwell supplement. I have never dosed it as mine runs right around 400. Some people will tell you they feel they get more color in the 400-420 range but much north of 420 you could be flirting with disaster. Your baseline will probably depend on what salt brand you use.

 

[rushbattle]

IMO it really is another one of those parameters you are going to get people that swear by testing/dosing and others that maintain beautiful reefs and coloration that will tell you they have never messed with it.

Most of the normal test kit companies out there make a kit for it and there are several potassium supplements. I have the salifert kit and brightwell supplement. I have never dosed it as mine runs right around 400. Some people will tell you they feel they get more color in the 400-420 range but much north of 420 you could be flirting with disaster. Your baseline will probably depend on what salt brand you use.

This! I don’t test for it much because it is normally pretty stable. Unless you are using salt mix with 180ppm K then you can kill corals pretty quick! I even sent out for ICP because I couldn’t believe it was that low. ICP found the same thing. I wouldn’t worry too much about it, but there are rare cases like my example where testing for it makes sense.

 

[GoVols]

Found the first one

Tank Parameters Of Some Masters

Tank Parameters Of Some Masters To this day one of the most frequently asked questions I get, and actually that many “old time hobbyists” get is “How do I get rid of the algae in my tank. My first question then is “what are the parameters of your tank’s water? Invariably the answer is my tank’s...

www.reef2reef.com

Nitrates all over the spectrum.

 

[ddrueckh]

Just thinking out loud (in writing)...is it perhaps ratios instead of individual values that is important?

I would love to see a database of everyone’s values (Alk, Ca, Mag, No3 and PO4) with a column rating their coral health (growth and color). How do the values in tanks with good health compare to those without good health? Is there a common parameter in tanks with good health? Is there a common ratio between two or more elements?

 

[gugpuccio]

I thought it was believed that nitrate over 30+ is what caused the browning of SPS, again I know it depends on who you talk to etc. Do you think the lighting intensity needs to be less if you are running ULN? or are the two related? With my tank specifically if the nitrate is barely detectable or not detectable at all my corals pale out horribly. I am just wondering if the two are mutual?

Hi, sorry i missed this one! For what concern lighting, i think they are related. In general higher pars means higher tank but also coral metabolism and higher need for N and C. So probably (but i'm guessing here) with higher light intensity higher levels of NO3 and PO4 may help corals. I keep no3 at 5ppm and have really intense lighting with 5 led bars (here it's one of best lighting, but in the US are not used, they are called easyled) and my corals are doing very well. One year ago i had 0 NO3 with the same lighting and my corals were more pale and some eventually went in RTN.

I've been running 25-35ppm recently, and my corals are still all colored up. I think the coloring up has more to do with alkalinity (or general parameter) stability than directly nitrate levels. That being said, for all of the hurrah of moderate nitrates with SPS these days, my old biocube had excellent color and growth under DIY LEDs with 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate with an oversized skimmer and no algae growth. I really think the key is stability, then altitude of levels.

I think the earlier italian poster discussing inorganic vs. organic circulating nutrients brought up a great point that they're two different things, show up differently on test kits, and should probably be thought of differently, though I don't think the organic molecules are as well understood since we test for the inorganic after-effects of the organic molecules. At least that's how I (pretend to) understand it.

Thanks, i agree. In my experience i found the excessive DOC (measured with my eyes by looking at the glass film color) to affect coral coloration and growth way way more than NO3 level. You are right, the main problem is that our testing kits only measure the inorganic part of the cycle (NO2, NO3 and PO4).

 

[HotRocks]

Just thinking out loud (in writing)...is it perhaps ratios instead of individual values that is important?

I would love to see a database of everyone’s values (Alk, Ca, Mag, No3 and PO4) with a column rating their coral health (growth and color). How do the values in tanks with good health compare to those without good health? Is there a common parameter in tanks with good health? Is there a common ratio between two or more elements?

This is a very valid point, also probably explains why some may be successful keeping parameters closer to NSW when others have just as much success with high nutrients etc. Maybe they also have elevated other levels intentionally in order to make it jive in their tank.

I think there is definitely a correlation between several parameters and you have to find what works best for your tank. If it was as simple for everyone to do the same thing and it was easy to hit certain numbers and maintain them this hobby wouldn't be nearly as fun or may not even exist. SPS wouldn't be "hard to keep" LOL It would be a whole lot less aggravating but then again the challenge is what keeps me engaged most of the time I guess!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you have any idea how to interpret my results? I'm kind of confused on what they mean.

I’ve not seen any evidence on the utility of knowing organic nitrogen, or what one would do about it. What level of what compounds in the water are good and what levels of what are bad? IMO, it may be too broad of a test to provide useful guidance to reefers, at least right now.

 

[reefwreak]

Thanks, i agree. In my experience i found the excessive DOC (measured with my eyes by looking at the glass film color) to affect coral coloration and growth way way more than NO3 level. You are right, the main problem is that our testing kits only measure the inorganic part of the cycle (NO2, NO3 and PO4).

Your "glass film color" observation is a good point too. Despite running >15ppm nitrate for the last few months, I only have to clean my glass every few days, and have recently gone away for a weekend without the glass being grown over. I wonder if it's low PO4 (which also mentioned in this thread, was an "optimal level" 5 years ago in the hobby) and nutrient imbalance. Every year in this hobby we're learning more and more.

The organic vs. inorganic could also explain why some algae thrives despite tests showing 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. We used to just chalk it up to "it's being used by the algae", but there may be more to it, since there needs to be some free nutrients for the algae to take it up...

 

[HotRocks]

Your "glass film color" observation is a good point too. Despite running >15ppm nitrate for the last few months, I only have to clean my glass every few days, and have recently gone away for a weekend without the glass being grown over. I wonder if it's low PO4 (which also mentioned in this thread, was an "optimal level" 5 years ago in the hobby) and nutrient imbalance. Every year in this hobby we're learning more and more.

The organic vs. inorganic could also explain why some algae thrives despite tests showing 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. We used to just chalk it up to "it's being used by the algae", but there may be more to it, since there needs to be some free nutrients for the algae to take it up...

What do you mean by the glass film color observation? Would you mind elaborating a bit on that?

 

[Jettareefer223]

Disclaimer: I don’t care what snood comments people wanna make or argue. Just making a statement and giving my values/experience.

I run heavy bioloads and feed heavy most of my tanks run 10-25ppm. My current DT idles at 15-20ppm (salifert). I run reef octopus 202s cone on 55 gallons net volume. I really don’t see any impact on growth at all and color is decent/rich. If the nitrates are 5ppm or less think really start to lighten. With higher energy intense light/flow it doesn’t seem to have a negative impact I’ve had all the way to 50ppm. A few Sps look better when Lower and some higher I stay in the middle ground.

 

[HotRocks]

Disclaimer: I don’t care what snood comments people wanna make or argue. Just making a statement and giving my values/experience.

I run heavy bioloads and feed heavy most of my tanks run 10-25ppm. My current DT idles at 15-20ppm (salifert). I run reef octopus 202s cone on 55 gallons net volume. I really don’t see any impact on growth at all and coral is decent/rich. If the nitrates are 5ppm or less think really start to lighten. With higher energy intense light/flow it doesn’t seem to have a negative impact I’ve had all the way to 50ppm. A few Sps look better when Lower and some higher I stay in the middle ground.

That makes complete sense to me. I definitely still have a few corals that aren't happy at the 5ppm mark. I had a whole bunch that weren't happy when I was running undetectable nitrate.

 

[bar|none]

Disclaimer: I don’t care what snood comments people wanna make or argue. Just making a statement and giving my values/experience.

I run heavy bioloads and feed heavy most of my tanks run 10-25ppm. My current DT idles at 15-20ppm (salifert). I run reef octopus 202s cone on 55 gallons net volume. I really don’t see any impact on growth at all and coral is decent/rich. If the nitrates are 5ppm or less think really start to lighten. With higher energy intense light/flow it doesn’t seem to have a negative impact I’ve had all the way to 50ppm. A few Sps look better when Lower and some higher I stay in the middle ground.

Can I ask what you keep your P at in this N range.

 

[madweazl]

<1ppm the vast majority of the time with an acropora dominant tank. Typically under .5ppm. Higher levels haven't produced anything positive in my tank and are a waste in my opinion.

 

[Jettareefer223]

Can I ask what you keep your P at in this N range.

Haha I haven’t tested it since the January or February of this year. My last readings on both 713/774 .19 / .22 respectively (no3 levels were 20-25 ppm). I/100th is where I jam.

 

[bar|none]

Haha I haven’t tested it since the January or February of this year. My last readings on both 713/774 .19 / .22 respectively (no3 levels were 20-25 ppm). I/100th is where I jam.

I like the ratio thing

 

[Jettareefer223]

I like the ratio thing

It seems to work lol, so it’s all gravy