SPS and Nitrate

[CastAway]

Do SPS consume NO3 directly, or, do SPS consume that which ultimately breaks down and results in NO3? Both perhaps?

I never have measurable NO3, and understand that the consensus is that this is not good for SPS.

Thus, I used to dose KNO3, but stopped to battle cyano and never started back up. Although I think I saw a positive response to KNO3 in my SPS, i am unsure of the relation to the cyano.

Now, I've been thinking about skimming less so as to increase NO3, but wonder what it is exactly that may benefit the coral, the suspended organics, or, the resulting NO3.

 

[Brew12]

Great question! Following!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/chemistry
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/12/aafeature
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15859452
boom.

and some corals digestive metabolism as i understand it is actually on their skin. its how they absorb alk from the water. it would follow suit that they digest other nutrients from the water through the skin. this should vary from animal to animal depending on how highly evolved they are.
Imo(nature nerd) SPS are a more primitive coral as they are more closely related to a stromatolite, (the first reef builder and probably what put o2 in our atmosphere 3 bil ago), than a zoanthid or mushroom just based on observation of their having a more evolved gut. thus many sps being delicate and harder to keep.

the amount of Po uptake is still being speculated from species to species, that's from Dr Sanjay. Browning in nature might be actually normal and brighter colors may indicate starvation(nutrient wise), and the same goes for light.
Tri colored valeda:mad:......comes from a LOT of places and depths. try getting an id on one of those. same animal different places, different colors..
SO a beautifully colored high light SPS may actually be a starving animal with too much light.

stromatolite btw. Is a cyanobacteria.

 

[BlueDevil]

SO a beautifully colored high light SPS may actually be a starving animal with too much light.

Wait wha what?? So the worse they look (in typical reefers' eyes), the better fed they are? [emoji848]

 

[Brew12]

Wait wha what?? So the worse they look (in typical reefers' eyes), the better fed they are? [emoji848]

Ya know.. it makes perfect sense. Typically, bright colors in nature occur for 1 of 3 reasons. Deter predators, attract a mate, or attract food. Could it be that corals have evolved the ability to become brighter to attract food and if they are well fed they have no reason to maintain a bright color?

Of course... I'm probably completely off base. I'll go back to sleep.

 

[Sn4k33Y3z]

Great question! I too am in the process of testing a few of these methods out myself. I assure you IMO, this is a "guarded" secret among successful sellers. The sellers IMO will discuss light levels, maintenance routines, salts, etc. However, I suspect they're holding back some information from the general public to their best interest.

Think back just in the last five years of all the new designer SPS that has come to market. Even the WD was just a green acro and over a period of two years(I think) it has "become" what you know it to be today. Makes me wonder what other methods "they're" doing that I'm not... I think it's more then just the prevebial "keep things balanced" and keep NO3 at 5 and traces of NO4. JM2C

 

[BlueDevil]

Very interesting takes on this subject. Might have to read up on it. I'm curious/fascinated now.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Wait wha what?? So the worse they look (in typical reefers' eyes), the better fed they are? [emoji848]

higher nutrients=browning... no?

 

[BlueDevil]

higher nutrients=browning... no?

I'm a newbie at SPS so my knowledge is limited. Everything I have read so far has said browned = not healthy, from one of many causes. So this is sort of a mind = blown type thread that has piqued my interest.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Great question! I too am in the process of testing a few of these methods out myself. I assure you IMO, this is a "guarded" secret among successful sellers. The sellers IMO will discuss light levels, maintenance routines, salts, etc. However, I suspect they're holding back some information from the general public to their best interest.

Think back just in the last five years of all the new designer SPS that has come to market. Even the WD was just a green acro and over a period of two years(I think) it has "become" what you know it to be today. Makes me wonder what other methods "they're" doing that I'm not... I think it's more then just the prevebial "keep things balanced" and keep NO3 at 5 and traces of NO4. JM2C

Very interesting takes on this subject. Might have to read up on it. I'm curious/fascinated now.

Keep in mind a bit we silly humans try to keep animal species from HUGELY different habitats in the same small box. But ny maintaining a "stable" environment and "recommended" nutrient parameters we generally have success. I do wonder if most reefers have that one coral that does not do well just because the habitat provided is just too different. Like a xenia in a ULNS.
but by keeping a steady diet of nutrients in and out of the system. each of the animals gets the nutrition it needs.
Its waht always confused me about the ulns systems. Youd have to dose EVERYTHING, and then get it out again. seems a bit unstable to me.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm a newbie at SPS so my knowledge is limited.

Im learning too. The first thing to wrap our heads around is, SPS is like saying fruit. The deepest darkest growing photosynthetic coral on the planet is an SPS. a Leptoseris.
Most folks do mean Acros and their kin.

 

[CastAway]

Do SPS consume NO3 directly, or, do SPS consume that which ultimately breaks down and results in NO3? Both perhaps?

I never have measurable NO3, and understand that the consensus is that this is not good for SPS.

Thus, I used to dose KNO3, but stopped to battle cyano and never started back up. Although I think I saw a positive response to KNO3 in my SPS, i am unsure of the relation to the cyano.

Now, I've been thinking about skimming less so as to increase NO3, but wonder what it is exactly that may benefit the coral, the suspended organics, or, the resulting NO3.

Both.

Thanks. [emoji15]

 

[Mark75]

It is my understanding that the pigment in our sps comes from the amount of zooxanthellae contained in the flesh and zooxanthella is brown/tan.

Intense light in relation to nutrients causes zooxanthella to be more productive and less is needed to support the coral, causing brilliant colors.

High amounts of nutrients in a low light environment creates dense formation of under performing zooxanthella browning the coral.

Show, much like everything in this hobby, it is about balance.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It is my understanding that the pigment in our sps comes from the amount of zooxanthellae contained in the flesh and zooxanthella is brown/tan.

Intense light in relation to nutrients causes zooxanthella to be more productive and less is needed to support the coral, causing brilliant colors.

High amounts of nutrients in a low light environment creates dense formation of under performing zooxanthella browning the coral.

Show, much like everything in this hobby, it is about balance.

so a healthy lean diet, not like mine

 

[CastAway]

I have no doubt that in creating what appeals to our human eye, we depart from what naturally occurs on a reef, in terms of lighting, as well as the organic and inorganic composition of the water.

Considering the diversity of species and their proximity to one another; it just makes since to me that there's a big difference between a naturally occurring micro habitat and a forced/created micro habitat.

Regardless, if my SPS are starving, sunburnt and unnatural, ill take it. I want move vivid colors and accelerated growth, even if it pains them. However, I'd rather do it by undoing or effecting change to something I've already done, like skimming, rather than adding/buying another additive.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have no doubt that in creating what appeals to our human eye, we depart from what naturally occurs on a reef, in terms of lighting, as well as the organic and inorganic composition of the water.

Considering the diversity of species and their proximity to one another; it just makes since to me that there's a big difference between a naturally occurring micro habitat and a forced/created micro habitat.

Regardless, if my SPS are starving, sunburnt and unnatural, ill take it. I want move vivid colors and accelerated growth, even if it pains them. However, I'd rather do it by undoing or effecting change to something I've already done, like skimming, rather than adding/buying another additive.

completely agreed. I liked the conversation topic because of that too.

One quandry I have is my SPS, Poccis and stylos and one acro, blew up with growth and color. Its called a frogskin acro I believe. My talbot damsel shredded my dsb. Shredded daily digging holes. Away for work out of town the Mrs in charge, when I got back home the Po was .25 or higher on an api. the tunze skimmer had slowed down to a crawl and the refugium was huge. That was 30 days of that. the gsp didnt explode w growth the xenia nor the zoas. just those sps. most would say the tank should have crashed. green glass, no cyano in the dt. some in the fuge.

so yes. IMO a perfectly acceptable notion. Leave more nutrients in the water.

 

[Brew12]

Regardless, if my SPS are starving, sunburnt and unnatural, ill take it.

I'm not sure I see it that way. You are providing the conditions under which they have adapted to develop brighter colors. That does not mean they are starving, only that they are using an adaption to adjust to less nutrient rich water.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm not sure I see it that way. You are providing the conditions under which they have adapted to develop brighter colors. That does not mean they are starving, only that they are using an adaption to adjust to less nutrient rich water.

like on top of a reef.

 

[CastAway]

^^Interesting^^

 

[CastAway]

The Wijgerde article is awesome btw! Bookmarked, and have read several times now. Great info!