SPS Bleached in 3 weeks, why?

[IslandLifeReef]

Turning up the lights was 100% opposite of the safe approach:

When to lower light intensity as a reef tank CPR move

Team, you need to know that being able to revert back to cloudy day/low lighting is the #1 thing you do as tank CPR before any other action. Water charges come after Preventing light sunburn is #1 temperature insults cold and hot. chemical burns, overdoses. events where you think ammonia...

www.reef2reef.com

our corals don't die with reduced lighting, they survive cloudy weeks on reefs commonly. we'd use that to be the initial safe mode to make the other test frags stable, and increase feed quality after checking params are reasonable. the lighting is such an issue its the #1 thing we do not do during any tank challenge, even before a water change we reduce lighting intensity until the issue is located. bright lights are the very, very last thing we do to attain strong sps growth and even doing that as a guess vs par-measured for the location is risky.

@brandon429, I both agree and disagree with you on this. It all depends on how sudden the coral starts decaying. Just because reefs survive for weeks under cloudy skies doesn't mean that lowering the light in a tank is the best option. Even on cloudy days, a reef is most likely getting way more PAR and other usable light than most of us provide on a daily basis. Ever get sun burned on a cloudy day?

If the decay in your coral health is sudden, then yes, reducing the light can also reduce some of the stress and aid in recovery.

If the decay is over months, then lighting being too low very well may be the only issue. Very few people actually measure the light levels in their tanks. They go with presets and run them at levels that are just guesses. They look at the stated output of the light, but never consider that most of the time, the manufacturer is stating values measured in air. They also don't account for loss of PAR over the spread of the tank.

So, you may be right in this case that raising the light in the tank before adding new coral was not the right move, but without know a lot more about the tank, we can't say for sure. Looking back at the OP's posts, he had an ALK level of 11.2 just 5 weeks ago. Now his ALK is 8.1. Other parameters have fluctuated as well. The only thing that seems to be stable in nitrate. So, my guess is that it is a lack of stability in the tank that is causing the issues.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

@brandon429, I both agree and disagree with you on this. It all depends on how sudden the coral starts decaying. Just because reefs survive for weeks under cloudy skies doesn't mean that lowering the light in a tank is the best option. Even on cloudy days, a reef is most likely getting way more PAR and other usable light than most of us provide on a daily basis. Ever get sun burned on a cloudy day?

If the decay in your coral health is sudden, then yes, reducing the light can also reduce some of the stress and aid in recovery.

If the decay is over months, then lighting being too low very well may be the only issue. Very few people actually measure the light levels in their tanks. They go with presets and run them at levels that are just guesses. They look at the stated output of the light, but never consider that most of the time, the manufacturer is stating values measured in air. They also don't account for loss of PAR over the spread of the tank.

So, you may be right in this case that raising the light in the tank before adding new coral was not the right move, but without know a lot more about the tank, we can't say for sure. Looking back at the OP's posts, he had an ALK level of 11.2 just 5 weeks ago. Now his ALK is 8.1. Other parameters have fluctuated as well. The only thing that seems to be stable in nitrate. So, my guess is that it is a lack of stability in the tank that is causing the issues.

Yea this isn't a light issue. Truth be told, it's rarely ever a light issue. I've never done a light acclimation for corals, ever. And I've handled, sold, bought, and cared for thousands and thousands of corals, frags, colonies, etc. I don't recall ever losing one and thought it was related to a "light change" issue.

On rare occasion I had customers who put corals under 600+ par and fried their corals, or put them under 100 par and they slowly decayed away. But those were extreme light supply issues, not a change in light.

 

[brandon429]

it does not matter what happens in your house, its what you can assemble as linkable patterns in others tanks that makes the point. if you have some bleaching control work to link let's see some to see how well actions worked outbound per others reports

turning up the light, in a white rock no live rock tank is 100% a factor in bleaching, you'd start by eliminating it as a causative in round 2, decrease intensity by 30% and sustain it until you can par verify upper limits. you shouldnt start at full upper light power, you'd arrive there as surface maturity and repetitions of feed/export/positive mass onset allows.

replace light intensity drive with spot feed intensity drive and increased tank export to make up for it, actionable bleach prevention. we practice that where possible and link it

 

[Evo R]

Just my 2 cents.....

The OP's thread heading states....sps bleaching over three weeks.......

Sps bleach because of really only two things...To much/high par light without proper light intensity acclimation. And secondly from High heat/rising water temp and or rapid temp swings.
As too little/low light will brown out sps long before it dies.

But this aside. If it was the intense lighting schedule, it was really just the final straw that broke the camels back. As stability is key. Consistent day in day out, month in month out stability.....and that has been proven time and time again only to come with tank maturity.

As 99.99999999999% of all new reefers Yo-Yo their tanks by constantly fidgeting and tampering with their water chemistry trying to avoid the ugly stage and or trying to chase the "perfect" water parameters using every chemical product that they can buy.

And according to the spread sheet posted his parameters vary daily and therefor are nowhere near stable for sps.

I closely follow and try to learn from some legendary hardcore sps reefers when ever i can, all of them have different methods. Some swear by ULNS and others by high nutrients (High for sps) and all of them have unreal success with their sps dominant systems......and the one thing every one of them preaches....is tank stability and maturity. The ability for ones tank to take blows and punches without batting an eye lid.

And that will and can only come time.....

 

[i_am_mclovin]

Just my 2 cents.....

The OP's thread heading states....sps bleaching over three weeks.......

Sps bleach because of really only two things...To much/high par light without proper light intensity acclimation. And secondly from High heat/rising water temp and or rapid temp swings.
As too little/low light will brown out sps long before it dies.

But this aside. If it was the intense lighting schedule, it was really just the final straw that broke the camels back. As stability is key. Consistent day in day out, month in month out stability.....and that has been proven time and time again only to come with tank maturity.

As 99.99999999999% of all new reefers Yo-Yo their tanks by constantly fidgeting and tampering with their water chemistry trying to avoid the ugly stage and or trying to chase the "perfect" water parameters using every chemical product that they can buy.

And according to the spread sheet posted his parameters vary daily and therefor are nowhere near stable for sps.

I closely follow and try to learn from some legendary hardcore sps reefers when ever i can, all of them have different methods. Some swear by ULNS and others by high nutrients (High for sps) and all of them have unreal success with their sps dominant systems......and the one thing every one of them preaches....is tank stability and maturity. The ability for ones tank to take blows and punches without batting an eye lid.

And that will and can only come time.....

To note, SPS bleach from way more than just those two things. Nitrate/phosphate swings, alk swings, etc to name a few of the bigger ones. Really anything that shocks them in terms of parameter swings.

 

[daer119]

0 phosphate will get you every time.

That’s what I’m reading in my tank, 0 to no phosphate. What should they be at for a mixed coral tank and whats a good thing to add to a tank to help with raising those levels? Thanks for any help!

 

[Brian_68]

For me alk swings and no / near zero phosphate do it every time. Until those are under control I would hold off on acros.

 

[ChuckTownReefer]

That’s what I’m reading in my tank, 0 to no phosphate. What should they be at for a mixed coral tank and whats a good thing to add to a tank to help with raising those levels? Thanks for any help!

I aim for 10-20 nitrates and .1-.2 photos but my system is a very nutrient hungry tank. I have trouble keeping it that high but the acros have such better color when there's nutrients in the water. I tried running lower nutrients but its not worth it. Here are my numbers tonight. Also I have to dose nitrates and phosphates daily and I feed 3 frozen cubes a day also.

 

[ChuckTownReefer]

Also it's your low nutrients that killed that birds nest. I had to go out of town for 3 days and my nutrients bottom out and I lost three acros 2 were birds nest and the other was a finicky tenuis.

 

[happyhourhero]

That’s what I’m reading in my tank, 0 to no phosphate. What should they be at for a mixed coral tank and whats a good thing to add to a tank to help with raising those levels? Thanks for any help!

I shoot for .10 phosphate. Mine is kept there from feeding now but I had to dose NeoPhos for a couple of months until my rock stopped absorbing it.

 

[brandon429]

ChuckTown

not one spec of bad algae on the rocks, impressive. those corals are uptaking everything added

 

[ScottB]

Just to avoid confusion...

Running barely measurable nutrients CAN be done with super heavy import and export. Feeding many fish multiple times per day. Heavy coral load too.

This is much more feasible in a large system and autofeeding. Tons of rock, mechanical filtration, refugium etc.

It is much less safe to run low nutrient systems in a smaller biome. This is advanced reefing requiring superb attention and skill.

 

[daer119]

I shoot for .10 phosphate. Mine is kept there from feeding now but I had to dose NeoPhos for a couple of months until my rock stopped absorbing it.

Thanks, I’ll look that up and see if lfs has it!

 

[ChuckTownReefer]

Thanks, I’ll look that up and see if lfs has it!

But be careful because when you dose nitrates (like neophos) it will make your phosphate levels drop also.

You need to dose phosphates and nitrates.

 

[Tony the Fish]

I'll chime in. Had corals for year with no issues. Started up a new 250 and couldn't keep corals more than a month. The start to lose color week after week and then RTN. Very stable alk,xa,mg,salinity temp, added a chiller. Tried new leds, tried corals in different spots. Constant battle with cyano. Rented par meter all to yo no avail until... I started checking nitrate and phosphate. Both at zero. Stated dosing ESV nitrate and seachem phospate and keeping phos between 0.05-0.1 and nitrates 5-10. Now corals are growing and no signs of cyano. As others have said ULN can work, but your walking a tight rope with no room for error. Take the easy way out and start dosing and use a hanna checker to test. NO READING OF COLOR CHARTS.

 

[happyhourhero]

But be careful because when you dose nitrates (like neophos) it will make your phosphate levels drop also.

You need to dose phosphates and nitrates.

Neophos does not impact nitrates. It adds phosphorus/ ultimately increases phosphates.

 

[ScottB]

Neophos does not impact nitrates. It adds phosphorus/ ultimately increases phosphates.

@ChuckTownReefer was making the point that if you dose nitrates to a nitrate deficient system, it will kickstart a bacterial process that will dramatically consume available phosphate. Not a problem if you have a phosphate surplus, but a real problem if you don't have a surplus of phosphates.

Not only have I read of this experience a hundred times here, I have witnessed it myself several times. The opposite can also happen, but it is not so pronounced IME.

 

[happyhourhero]

@ChuckTownReefer was making the point that if you dose nitrates to a nitrate deficient system, it will kickstart a bacterial process that will dramatically consume available phosphate. Not a problem if you have a phosphate surplus, but a real problem if you don't have a surplus of phosphates.

Not only have I read of this experience a hundred times here, I have witnessed it myself several times. The opposite can also happen, but it is not so pronounced IME.

Understood. When they said “when you dose nitrates “like NeoPhos” …” it could cause confusion because Neophos is not used to dose nitrates.

 

[ScottB]

Understood. When they said “when you dose nitrates “like NeoPhos” …” it could cause confusion because Neophos is not used to dose nitrates.

Thank you for the clarification/correction. Good catch.

 

[Tony the Fish]

That would explain my phosphate consumption after getting my nitrates stable.