Sps corals bleaching from bottom up

@jda Is there a way to confirm high availability? Or must we assume that if we feed a lot (very subjective term) and have low residuals (another subjective term) then we must be exporting a lot, also implying that there must be high availability between feeding and exporting.
 
Everybody is going to need to understand the difference in availability and residual levels to make this thread work. First, you need to understand that coral would much rather get nitrogen from ammonia or ammonium since processing no3 to get the n is costly, takes a lot of energy and is not efficient.

Availability is more important than residual levels - availability is usually what is in the water right now that has not yet made it all the way through the N cycle (plankton, ammonia/ammonium, etc.). Availability and higher residual levels are not mutually exclusive. However, if you are using a lot of media and chemicals, you can have very low availability and have higher residual levels still... this can be bad in some cases. You can also have very low residual levels and high availability - most tanks with lower residuals have this (zeovit, mine, etc.).

Everybody worries about residual levels since they have tests and stuff, but this is not where the prize is. Availability is what makes things run. Even people with higher residual levels are running off of availability even if they do not know it. I know that people like to post and talk about their N and P numbers, but this is like talking about horsepower only and not torque, gears, car weight, oxygen level, etc. when you are wondering if your car is fast... nearly worthless. Availability is harder to gauge and you have pretty much just feed a ton and then also export a ton to where your residuals are not rising - basically, use your residuals to double check your availability.

Using chemipure, GFO, LC, organic carbon, reactors of all kinds is OK as long as the availability is there. This usually required a LOT of feeding and a lot of fish. When I say a lot, I mean the kind that few people have, especially in small tanks. The mistake that people make is that they think that the application of all of these things is universal and this could not be farther from the truth. Using them is not universal and suggesting that people remove them is not universal. However, the suggest to remove them is usually more safe than adding them.

To wrap all of this up, if I posted that I was having X or Y trouble with my tank and then said that I had .1 residual nitrate and .01 residual phosphate, I would get no shortage of people telling me to raise my N and P and probably not one asking about availability. This is not helpful to most people and is too simple to do any good.
This should be a sticky
 
I had to rush earlier, but let me expand some more.

My tank has residual levels of about .1N and .01P... you need ICP to detect the nitrate and Hannah ultra low will be between 1-3 ppb. Nothing suffers in my tanks. Nothing. People can find all kinds of things to complain about me, most if which are a bullseye, but not having thriving and growing stuff is not one of them.

I cringe when I see people post the parroted talk that people need to raise their N and P any time somebody has a problem. Could it help? Sure. Will it help? Who knows without more questions and stuff. It is not likely going to help unless they increase the availability - adding sodium nitrate and triphosphate will not likely do as much on the back end. ...so more import to start and more export if the import is overpowering the export.

There are also people who think that having higher N and P are what is moving the line forward, but this likely is not it either. The availability that keeps those levels high are what is doing the work - the man behind the curtain that goes unnoticed. These people would likely have much better results with lower residuals and the same availability - higher levels of N and P actually do slow down calcification and cellular processing even if they do not cause death and stuff still grows.

I also cringe when I see that posts that media or chemicals are the devil. They certainly can be, but it is almost always the application. They can work fast and you have to be smart, but when used correctly, they can be an appropriate tool, but that tool needs availability on the front end to help the corals while it works on the back end. Nearly nobody should be using any chemicals on a new(er) tank - there is just no need since residual levels are not set yet and the biological processes in the tank are still settling in.

I get it. Availability is hard to understand and hard to measure. There are test kits for N and P and people can latch on to numbers. This is why you have to pay attention and be smart. Heck, BRS has not even made a video about it - notice my disdain for reefers who get all of their knowledge from BRS videos? However, BRS does make a comment in their ZeoVit video that says something like "people think that this tank with it's low N and P is devoid of nutrients, but there are more nutrients run through this tank than any other that we have ever had." They are right about that, even though I hate calling N and P nutrients - soapbox here. (see, I do watch their videos before I roll my eyes at a lot of them)

The people who have always said "feed the fish more" are likely completely right. There are people who have fed their fish more and seen the residuals get too high, so the cut back on the feedings when they need to up the export.

My advice is to feed your fish so that they are actively growing. A tang should grow an inch, or more, a year. Then, match your export to the import so that your residual levels are low, but detectable... like 1N and .05P would be near my top to keep any type of coral at any time but 5N and .10P might not freak me out too much if I did not have a bunch of sensitive acropora. Keep your carbonate and calcium near NSW to match. If your N and P are rising, then don't cut back on feeding if you have lots of coral, but up the export. Using chemicals is OK as long as you are not going down near zero and you are going SLOW - natural methods using sandbed for nitrate and chaeto/fuge for nitrate/phosphate are better since they can never really get to zero, but sometimes this is not possible and media/chemicals are needed. DO NOT use chemicals and media unless you have a well-known, documented problem (like for a while) and you know exactly what you are doing. For example, if I took my fuge offline for a few months to clean or replace, my P would climb a bit and I would use some GFO, but it would be small and only enough to balance the import.

I have my method on my re-build thread, but I use multiple skimmers, sand and chaeto in a fuge to keep my N and P down. I also change water, but not for this. There are many ways to up export. Don't be scared of upping export and driving your N and P down, just make sure that you availability is higher.

Lastly, if people feel like dosing, then dosing commercial ammonium is likely better than dosing nitrate. At least the ammonium in available to the corals in a manner that they prefer. Some might cringe and see ammonium as a poison, and it is at high levels. However, so is nitrate and people do not even think twice about this. I just prefer to feed the fish and let them produce the ammonia/ammonium, but I guess that not everybody can do this.
 
@jda Is there a way to confirm high availability? Or must we assume that if we feed a lot (very subjective term) and have low residuals (another subjective term) then we must be exporting a lot, also implying that there must be high availability between feeding and exporting.

If you have thriving corals and low residuals, then you are here. If you have low residuals and pale corals that are unhealthy, then your availability is likely low (or the tank is new).
 
I had to rush earlier, but let me expand some more.

My tank has residual levels of about .1N and .01P... you need ICP to detect the nitrate and Hannah ultra low will be between 1-3 ppb. Nothing suffers in my tanks. Nothing. People can find all kinds of things to complain about me, most if which are a bullseye, but not having thriving and growing stuff is not one of them.

I cringe when I see people post the parroted talk that people need to raise their N and P any time somebody has a problem. Could it help? Sure. Will it help? Who knows without more questions and stuff. It is not likely going to help unless they increase the availability - adding sodium nitrate and triphosphate will not likely do as much on the back end. ...so more import to start and more export if the import is overpowering the export.

There are also people who think that having higher N and P are what is moving the line forward, but this likely is not it either. The availability that keeps those levels high are what is doing the work - the man behind the curtain that goes unnoticed. These people would likely have much better results with lower residuals and the same availability - higher levels of N and P actually do slow down calcification and cellular processing even if they do not cause death and stuff still grows.

I also cringe when I see that posts that media or chemicals are the devil. They certainly can be, but it is almost always the application. They can work fast and you have to be smart, but when used correctly, they can be an appropriate tool, but that tool needs availability on the front end to help the corals while it works on the back end. Nearly nobody should be using any chemicals on a new(er) tank - there is just no need since residual levels are not set yet and the biological processes in the tank are still settling in.

I get it. Availability is hard to understand and hard to measure. There are test kits for N and P and people can latch on to numbers. This is why you have to pay attention and be smart. Heck, BRS has not even made a video about it - notice my disdain for reefers who get all of their knowledge from BRS videos? However, BRS does make a comment in their ZeoVit video that says something like "people think that this tank with it's low N and P is devoid of nutrients, but there are more nutrients run through this tank than any other that we have ever had." They are right about that, even though I hate calling N and P nutrients - soapbox here. (see, I do watch their videos before I roll my eyes at a lot of them)

The people who have always said "feed the fish more" are likely completely right. There are people who have fed their fish more and seen the residuals get too high, so the cut back on the feedings when they need to up the export.

My advice is to feed your fish so that they are actively growing. A tang should grow an inch, or more, a year. Then, match your export to the import so that your residual levels are low, but detectable... like 1N and .05P would be near my top to keep any type of coral at any time but 5N and .10P might not freak me out too much if I did not have a bunch of sensitive acropora. Keep your carbonate and calcium near NSW to match. If your N and P are rising, then don't cut back on feeding if you have lots of coral, but up the export. Using chemicals is OK as long as you are not going down near zero and you are going SLOW - natural methods using sandbed for nitrate and chaeto/fuge for nitrate/phosphate are better since they can never really get to zero, but sometimes this is not possible and media/chemicals are needed. DO NOT use chemicals and media unless you have a well-known, documented problem (like for a while) and you know exactly what you are doing. For example, if I took my fuge offline for a few months to clean or replace, my P would climb a bit and I would use some GFO, but it would be small and only enough to balance the import.

I have my method on my re-build thread, but I use multiple skimmers, sand and chaeto in a fuge to keep my N and P down. I also change water, but not for this. There are many ways to up export. Don't be scared of upping export and driving your N and P down, just make sure that you availability is higher.

Lastly, if people feel like dosing, then dosing commercial ammonium is likely better than dosing nitrate. At least the ammonium in available to the corals in a manner that they prefer. Some might cringe and see ammonium as a poison, and it is at high levels. However, so is nitrate and people do not even think twice about this. I just prefer to feed the fish and let them produce the ammonia/ammonium, but I guess that not everybody can do this.
While I agree 100% with everything you wrote, I believe this is at the very least an intermediate level and probably a more advanced level approach. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like a lot of the jabs were directed at my recommendations, but I recommend higher residual n/p, get rid of the gfo, throw away the nopox for the reasons you are describing, to allow for more available. Besides, 90% of the time I recommend this is for noobs that went crazy on the latest live sale with 4 to 5 fish in a 75 gallon tank running alk between 9 and 11, testing no3/po4 everyday bc they’ve been brainwashed that these values need to be close to zero. I also believe that 5-10 no3/0.10 po4 provides a safety net for parameter swings. Especially in smaller tanks with less import.
 
I was not jabbing at anybody in particular... there are a lot of people with the "raise the N and P advice." There are two dudes (assume) on here that I take full-on punches at and you are not one of them.

Teach them the whole story, or at least try. In a hobby that takes time and patience, the fastest thing that a hobbyist can do is go from an entry-level to intermediate-level to advance-level of understanding... you can study a topic and get pretty good in a day or two whereas nothing good happens in an actual tank for a day or two. People who are going to succeed over the long haul will love this stuff. I think that it OK to tell them that they can run close to zero as long as they are feeding a bunch and the corals have building blocks available to them. I know that I post a lot sometimes, but I am trying to teach a person to fish (bad pun?).

Doesn't everybody who is on here want to get to an intermediate or advanced level? You don't see too many people who are like "yeah, I wanna suck and struggle forever." They will be noobs forever if they do jot learn the more advanced stuff.

Honestly, I do not know what you do with the people who add 4-5 fish at once. Not much to do here, for sure.

For anybody who is struggling with stability in a small tank, I do suggest at least an inch of sand in smaller tanks for buffering of phosphate and to handle N at equilibrium... it is like the ultimate buffer. Mature live rock can do the same thing, but most who start newer tanks can be a year or two away from that.

I mostly advice against GFO or NoPoX because people are too fast to go to it and they often cut back on feedings to try and double dip to solve the problem - so just advising them to keep up the feedings might be a good start. Most also do not have the test kits to do it right and/or use way too much and do not understand aragonite binding of phosphate and the reservoir that will need to deplete SLOWLY.

Also, I meant to type this earlier, but I saw a post about alk swings. If a tank cannot handle a .5 alk swing every once in a while, then you are doing something wrong. Alk swings get blamed for a lot of issues too and I feel that they are just a distraction. Twice last year (embarrassing, I know) my co2 tanks ran empty and my alk was at 4.X and I just brought it back up with a dump-in of Baking Soda... like 4.X to 7.0 in about 2 minutes. No issues. I feel that it is incredibly more important not to keep alk too high, but people are REALLY resistant to this for a myriad of reasons.
 
If you have thriving corals and low residuals, then you are here. If you have low residuals and pale corals that are unhealthy, then your availability is likely low (or the tank is new).
Using your high import, high export, and low residual methodology, are there any SPS or LPS corals that you know don't grow well? Or would you say that you can grow any coral you choose to put in your tank?

I really appreciate hearing your theories and concepts about reef-keeping. Thanks!
 
I can keep whatever I want, but I stay away from all NPS and do not keep many softies or LPS. I do have some rainbow chalices, a few nicer Z&P, Colorado sunbursts and some bounce, eclectus and JB mushrooms which grow really fast. While dirty water might be better than super sterile for most of these things, the I find the same to hold true where lower residuals and high throughput work for all corals.
 
Great posts by all... not to knock any of them but it was my mistake... i accidentally squirted starting bacteria instead of coral food.... after a week of scratching heads with a friend, the problem had been solved. Thank you for the excellent detailed posts!!!
 
If you have thriving corals and low residuals, then you are here. If you have low residuals and pale corals that are unhealthy, then your availability is likely low (or the tank is new).
What you're saying makes sense, but I'm still a little confused...

If we can only measure residuals, how do we measure availability and how do you increase it if need be?
 
Stability is everything. If you make changes, go slow. Doesn’t matter if it is from high to low, or from low to high. Sudden changes and SPS will be the first to tell you. But you should also test when making changes. You can get away with more changes if the tank is mature.
 
Stability is everything. If you make changes, go slow. Doesn’t matter if it is from high to low, or from low to high. Sudden changes and SPS will be the first to tell you. But you should also test when making changes. You can get away with more changes if the tank is mature.
Understood and agreed.

Maybe I need to read this again, but my takeaway was that if you're high or low in residual nutrients, doesn't matter. It's more about available nutrients.

My current method is maintain detectable nutrients above NSW levels (.08 and 10). I do this mostly through maintaining a lot of fish and feeding them more frequently. I do also have to dose a little phosphate and nitrate, despite the heavy feeding. No carbon dosing or bio pellets. Just an appropriate sized skimmer and a small cheato refugium.

So how do I manage what nutrients are actually available to the sps? This is the part I'm not getting, but overall concept makes sense to me.

It's "kind" of like an average sized person eating 75g of protein in one sitting, but a human body can typically only process half of that at any one time. So why consume the extra calories associated with protein you can't actually process? Unless it's high protein ice cream. Then it's worth it lol
 

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