SPS help. Extremely Frustrated

[USMA36]

Why does this keep happening? My tank is a 90 gallon (100 gallon) total water volume it is about 15 months old and is lit by an ATI Sunpower 36” 8 bulb 9" over the water. The bulbs are about 7 months old. For flow other than the return pump I have 2 Maxspect 150 gyres placed horizontally on opposing ends of the tank and are set to random with a max of 60% My parameters are Temp 77, phosphate .0-.07 Nitrate .2-5ppm (usually at the lower end of the scale) Alk 8.0 pH 8.0-8.3 Calcium 410 Magnesium 1350. I dose Triton core 7 for other methods. All of my numbers are very stable. No matter what SPS I put in this is the result. They look great for 2 months then they start turning green. My LPS and Softies do well enough (except my candy cane. One day he’s fat and happy the next he’s all closed up. I have a large RBTA that seems happy as can be and about 9 fish. What could possibly be causing this. It’s very frustrating.

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

Your rocks look awfully clean for a 15 month old tank, I suspect you may have too little nutrients consistently and it is hampering growth of corals and instead allowing for what looks like green cyano to take over on the coral skeleton. Are you running GFO or dosing anything like NoPoX?

 

[USMA36]

GFO as needed. If my phosphates jump up past .1 I’ll run it for a few days. You think these are too clean?

 

[MTBake]

Could be several issues causing this. Lack of biodiversity and nutrients would be my assumption.

How is the coralline algae growth? If coralline doesn't grow, then neither will sps, IME.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Those corals look pretty far down in the tank. How far down into the tank are the sps corals? Is it possible not enough light? Do you have access to a par meter to see what kind of numbers you're getting? Would kind of explain why the lps and softies are doing fine but the sps are struggling....doesn't explain the anemone doing fine though..

 

[ca1ore]

These things are always hard to diagnose. Could be any of the things already noted. How many softies do you have in there, couldn't really tell? It can be tough to establish SPS if there are already softies present. You could try running some GAC for a while to see if that helps. I'm also not a big fan of the gyre pumps for SPS tanks, preferring something that gives a somewhat more chaotic flow (but some folks swear by them). How are you replenishing minerals? Water changes? That your SPS last 2 months before crapping out suggests that whatever ails them is quite subtle (otherwise they'd go fast).

 

[USMA36]

GFO as needed. Carbon runs most of the time. If my phosphates jump up past .1 I’ll run gfo for a few days. Unfortunately I do not have access to a par meter. The sps is at the top of the rock work about 9” below the surface. I have a leather, a toadstool, 2 large green hairy mushrooms, zoas at the bottom and the rest are lps placed in the lower 3rd of the tank. The anemone is rooted in the edge of my tank about 4” off the bottom. I can’t imagine an 8 bulb ATI not throwing enough light for sps 9” below the surface. Minerals are replaced through the Triton Core 7 dosing.

 

[USMA36]

I also have coraline growing in spots on the rocks and heavily on my overflow.

 

[HairyGary]

It may be a sum of a few things but I would just cut off the GFO for now and let your tank take in some nutrients. If you are at .1 its not the end of the world and many tanks thrive on higher numbers. Just skim well and see how your corals react.

 

[Daniel Waters]

Just to clarify, do the SPS die after two months or is it just the turning green color that concerns you? Are the SPS pale looking? I have many SPS that show "greening" as they grow out. I've had some pieces that take months to color up. As long as they are growing, I try not to get too stressed about it. If they are pale looking, I would look to increase your nitrates and keep them at 2.5 ppm or higher.

With an 8 bulb ATI fixture, you have plenty of light. What combination of bulbs are you using (I doubt this is the issue but thought I'd ask for thoroughness)?

 

[Justfebreezeit]

All the suggestions made so far sound good, do one at a time and see which one works imo. Then send in for an icp test and see if maybe something is out of wack.

 

[USMA36]

Just to clarify, do the SPS die after two months or is it just the turning green color that concerns you? Are the SPS pale looking? I have many SPS that show "greening" as they grow out. I've had some pieces that take months to color up. As long as they are growing, I try not to get too stressed about it. If they are pale looking, I would look to increase your nitrates and keep them at 2.5 ppm or higher.

With an 8 bulb ATI fixture, you have plenty of light. What combination of bulbs are you using (I doubt this is the issue but thought I'd ask for thoroughness)?

1 purple plus, 2 actinic, 4 blue plus and 1 coral plus. It hasn’t grown much at all. I’ve had the one pictured just over 2 months. Usually they turn green then die. I’ll try increasing the nitrates and not running gfo at all for a little while.

 

[Daniel Waters]

1 purple plus, 2 actinic, 4 blue plus and 1 coral plus. It hasn’t grown much at all. I’ve had the one pictured just over 2 months. Usually they turn green then die. I’ll try increasing the nitrates and not running gfo at all for a little while.

Thanks for the information on the bulb combination. I don't think lighting is your issue.

When you say they turn green and then die, do they do a STN or RTN type of death or bleach or ? Is the green coloring something that happens in a few days and then the coral dies or are you noticing the green shift over the two months period? The reason I'm asking is green coloration in corals is fairly common I believe. I have a few blue and red sps frags that have more green in them right now than blue or red! As far as growth (or lack thereof), two months is not really long enough in my opinion to be the judge on coral growth. I've had some pieces that look like they haven't grown in months. Some frags seem to take forever to put down a base and some will encrust before they ever do any vertical growth.

In general, I've never been a fan of GFO. It just seems to strip out phosphates very quickly, which creates its own issues. You may not be running it that often, but it just might be one more variable you could rule out by stopping it for a while. Unless you're having major algae outbreaks, I don't see any reason to worry about your phosphate number anyway. Your tank should reach a natural balance in my experience.

I don't recall you mentioning if you're feeding your corals any? That may be part of the Triton core program you're using, as I'm not familiar with all that's involved with that. But certainly feeding your corals may help.

The one thing I did that I really believe helped me be more successful with SPS was cranking my flow up to 40 to 50 times turnover (internal flow not my return pump). Plus, my flow is pretty random and chaotic. I have more polyp extension than I've ever had now. Of course, that's all anecdotal as I can't be absolutely sure that is the reason. I did have to get rid of some corals, though, as they were not conducive to high flow. That's one of the challenges of running mixed tanks, as some corals prefer different lighting and flow than others.

 

[BigJohnny]

this picture doesn't look like it's turning green it looks like it lost tissue and cyano/algae us growing in its place.

Couple concerns/questions:

1. Running gfo periodically is never a good idea imo. I don't like it at all but at least be consistent. I personally would recommend you don't run it at all and see what happens, .1 ppm is not going to cause issues. Ime I didn't even see slowed growth until .3ppm, color and health was still fantastic. Don't assume it will just keep going up indefinitely if you don't use gfo, not the case.

You will have much more trouble with acros if you are fluctuating phosphate and definitely if you don't have enough. Also don't just trust your phosphate test maybe try another to verify. Ive seen major variances.

2. Leather and a toadstool. I don't have experience with those but know they can cause problems and maybe the carbon isn't solving them.

3. Are you buying wild/maricultured colonies? I assume so because that's obviously not two months growth on a frag. Your success rate will be terrible with those, especially if you are new to acros. That could be your only problem if that's the case.

4. How stable is your alk? You said very stable but what does that mean to you?

5. I'd get a par meter or at least a lux although I don't think that's your problem based on how they are dying.

6. Have you done a triton icp test recently?

7. How often do you check your salinity, needs to be carefully monitored in no water change/triton system.

 

[BoomCorals]

If you’re buying wild and mariculture colonies this could be completely normal. I would stop running GFO though.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I think this Acropora experienced a severe drop in phosphate concentration. Acropora spp. incorporate a lot of phosphate into their skeletons when grown under high phosphate concentrations. When phosphate concentration drops they stop growing, may loose tissue and the exposed skeleton is green or turns green in a short time.

 

[MnFish1]

Just to clarify, do the SPS die after two months or is it just the turning green color that concerns you? Are the SPS pale looking? I have many SPS that show "greening" as they grow out. I've had some pieces that take months to color up. As long as they are growing, I try not to get too stressed about it. If they are pale looking, I would look to increase your nitrates and keep them at 2.5 ppm or higher.

With an 8 bulb ATI fixture, you have plenty of light. What combination of bulbs are you using (I doubt this is the issue but thought I'd ask for thoroughness)?

I had the same question - is the coral tissue turning green - or is the tissue dying and being covered by green algae? (to me it looks more like the second possibility). but its hard to tell from the pictures. This is a question to those suggesting increased nutrients - I thought the conventional wisdom was that if green algae is growing - there are adequate nutrients available.

Another question - except 'hair algae' I have plenty of algae in my tank - but I don't see algae growing on 'healthy' coral 'tissue'.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I just can tell what I see but I am quite sure it is that way: The green and reddish parts are skeleton without tissue while the blue and whitish parts are remnants of tissue. Both, the green and the reddish color are cyanobacteria growing in and on the skeleton. It is quite typical I think.

 

[Servillius]

Quick story. I set up my tank 4 years ago using Zeovit. The first year everything was fantastic. The next two years everything was all wrong. After two years (I’m an idiot), I figured out the core problem. We had changed the location where everyone smoked and it was poisoning the tank. I had upped the water changes enough (30% a week) that it partially masked the problem.

What I learned is this. If you do water changes that are big enough, you can usually at least partially solve anything.

I took advantage of this. I did huge water changes and when they got big enough things would start improving. When they got smaller problems would return. I cranked them up to the max.

I then made one change at a time, reduced water changes (to say half, don’t stop doing them), then waited. After about a month I could evaluate how well I had done. While the first big change, directing smoking elsewhere, made a big difference, it wasn’t the whole deal. I had to make about 6 more changes one at a time before things looked really healthy.

This hobby is not about having a nice tank. It’s about learning to have a nicer tank. That takes time and a lot of careful, well conceived experimentation.

At the same time you don’t want a doomed tank in your living room. The water changes are a solid way to help keep things pleasant while you fix your issues.

As to the specifics, people have pointed generally at them, but for emphasis;

1. Buy aquaculture frags. Small corals with a proven track record work better than wild or mariculture sps.
2. It sounds like you have a lot of flow but it’s possible to set it up in such a way it competes with itself. Change the schedule so that a good part of the time only one of the pumps is running. Not one running 60 and the other 30. Go with as much as you can stand on one and 0 on the other so there’s a real live change of direction for a sustained time. I’m always surprised by how much flow matters.
3. Your lights are fine, but take out an actinic and put in a Aquablue Special. Your color issues are not a lack of blue/actinic. They’re health issues. Add some white light.

 

[reeferfoxx]

take out an actinic and put in a Aquablue Special. Your color issues are not a lack of blue/actinic. They’re health issues. Add some white light.

I agree with this. I don't care what Jason Fox says, the tank needs white light