Sps help

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

So ive had some sps problems lately and im scratching my head at this point. My tank has only been up for a little over 4 months before anyone asks but mantained with good hysbandry. I have added mainly sps and lps. It is a 100g display with 40g sump. I have recently losses 6 acro frags and 2 acro colonies all to stn as well as a red monti cap who lost all its color slowly turning white and a green birdsnest. Nothing else was affected (torches,chalice,zoas,wellso). I ruled out nutrients since there was no browning and besides i keep everything pretty clean. I was carbon dosing which i have stopped almost 3 weeks ago. I was using vinegar and started 5ml a day but only ever got up to 15ml a day and that was over a month. I was running gfo during that time. I figured the stn basically came from stripping nutrients too fast also i was running kalk and no matter what i did i couldnt drop my alk below 9 which i wanted down at 8 with the low nutrients. I decided to cut the kalk but that was my only way of keeping my ph at 8.3 So after stopping with the vinegar i decided to drop my alk over the course of 4 days from 9 to 8 and now i manually dose alk at 22ml a day spit between 2 doses. Keeping it at 8. my problem at this point is that i added a small frag of digitata and a combo of red and green cap monti and the digis polyps are all closed at the tips and the red monti is turning from red to light pink around the outside and moving in. Not sure at this point what to do.

Params are

Ph 8.0
Amm 0
Trite 0
Trate 15
Po4 0.03
Sg 1.025
Temp 78.5

I run carbon and gfo in two separate reactors
Bubble magus curve 7 skimmer

Lighting is two hydra hd 26 with aquatic life hybrid fixture 4 ati blue + blubs
The hydras i run both blues at 90% white at 10% and uv at 80%

Recently changed t5 from 2 blue+ 2 coral + to 4 blue+

Ive kept a log over the past months and a half of alk and cal and there have never been any swings but my alk has always been between 9.0 and 9.4

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

Also weekely water change

Mal11224 · Dec 30, 2017

Your numbers look okay for the most part. I would like a higher Alk for the amount of nitrates. Although you mentioned good husbandry, which is great, your tank is still young at 4 months. I had stable parameters after about 5 months and was only really able to keep acros after about 9 months. Everything else was great in the tank. Maturity is important. Might need a par meter to check your light levels. Light may be too intense for your SPS corals. Is there a specific reason for using GFO? were your phosphates elevated?
Edit: maybe you can split your doses to 4 times a day.

tdileo · Dec 30, 2017

Something I think of immediately is light acclimation. When you buy your new corals, do you immediately stick them high up or start them low and move them up over a few weeks so they adjust to the intense lighting? If your light is much stronger than the stores then they will probably be bleaching from light shock.

Zagreus · Dec 30, 2017

Sounds like high light, low nutrients, sterile tank = dead sps. I had the same exact problem. Look up one of my older threads labled "what are my corals saying". See if you relate. My problem is I was running a sterile tank with zero po4 and low to zero nitrates and i was running nopox and GFO and high light and it paled out and killed off my SPS. Did you start with any liverock?

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

Mal11224 said:
Your numbers look okay for the most part. I would like a higher Alk for the amount of nitrates. Although you mentioned good husbandry, which is great, your tank is still young at 4 months. I had stable parameters after about 5 months and was only really able to keep acros after about 9 months. Everything else was great in the tank. Maturity is important. Might need a par meter to check your light levels. Light may be too intense for your SPS corals. Is there a specific reason for using GFO? were your phosphates elevated?
Edit: maybe you can split your doses to 4 times a day.

I was wondering if the cause may just be a maturity issue. I know it was a little too soon for sps but i figured id be fine. Im hoping to order a par meter within the next month as well as an automated doser so i can split the doses up rather than do it manually. Right now with work i can only do it morning and night.

tdileo said:
Something I think of immediately is light acclimation. When you buy your new corals, do you immediately stick them high up or start them low and move them up over a few weeks so they adjust to the intense lighting? If your light is much stronger than the stores then they will probably be bleaching from light shock.

ive been putting them in the sandbed for at least a week before i start to move them up. As of right now the monti is still in the sand. Still with polyp extension but light pink around the edges

Zagreus · Dec 30, 2017

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/experienced-acropora-sps-keepers-1-year-help-needed.327336/

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

No

Zagreus said:
Sounds like high light, low nutrients, sterile tank = dead sps. I had the same exact problem. Look up one of my older threads labled "what are my corals saying". See if you relate. My problem is I was running a sterile tank with zero po4 and low to zero nitrates and i was running nopox and GFO and high light and it paled out and killed off my SPS. Did you start with and liverock?[/QUOTE
This may be very similar to my problem. Ive wondered after all this ive my light was too strong. Trying to get my water chemistry just right for such sensations corals has been challenging. Also no i started with 80lbs of dry pukani which if i could go back wouldve at least started with half live

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

Zagreus said:
Sounds like high light, low nutrients, sterile tank = dead sps. I had the same exact problem. Look up one of my older threads labled "what are my corals saying". See if you relate. My problem is I was running a sterile tank with zero po4 and low to zero nitrates and i was running nopox and GFO and high light and it paled out and killed off my SPS. Did you start with and liverock?

This may be very similar to my problem. Ive wondered after all this ive my light was too strong. Trying to get my water chemistry just right for such sensations corals has been challenging. Also no i started with 80lbs of dry pukani which if i could go back wouldve at least started with half live

Zagreus · Dec 30, 2017

Phillyd1990 said:
No

Assuming your tank perameters are stable which it looks like that also could be an issue, as you'll see from my thread, this is a highly debatable topic however some of the most experience reefers like Mike Palada will say that starting with dead rock, your tank will need an alot of time time to mature before you can support SPS corals. There are some people in here who that has not been true for like Rakie. That being said how is your Coreline growth? That is usually a good indicator your SPS ready when your coreline growth has taken off.

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

Zagreus said:
Assuming your tank perameters are stable which it looks like that also could be an issue, as you'll see from my thread, this is a highly debatable topic however some of the most experience reefers like Mike Palada will say that starting with dead rock, your tank will need an alot of time time to mature before you can support SPS corals. There are some people in here who that has not been true for like Rakie. That being said how is your Coreline growth? That is usually a good indicator your SPS ready when your coreline growth has taken off.

I do agree with maturity being a big issue here and may lead me towards more lps for the time being until things have had a chance to age. As far as coraline my rocks have been taken over by it. My overflow in the middle has also had a little bit of coverage as well as my two gyres

Zagreus · Dec 30, 2017

Phillyd1990 said:
I do agree with maturity being a big issue here and may lead me towards more lps for the time being until things have had a chance to age. As far as coraline my rocks have been taken over by it. My overflow in the middle has also had a little bit of coverage as well as my two gyres

That's a good sign. You can also buy some real high quality live rock and put that in your sump. For me when I switch to bawling method, used red sea blue bucket for weekly water changes, got a dosing pump and cut out GFO and Nopox it made my life a lot simpler. My tank went through and is still finishing off an ugly phase but my sps all came back accept for two that I sunburnt.

Phillyd1990 · Dec 30, 2017

Honestly that sounds so much better. I hate the cost of gfo. As far as live rock in the sump ive already been looking into that and had my eye on this https://www.liverocknreef.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=7915

jda · Dec 30, 2017

Your tank is new and you are messing with it a lot. Neither of these things will yield good results, but both of them together are even worse.

I would just leave everything alone and see how the water turns out. My guess is that the PO4 will climb like crazy since this is pretty common for a dead/dry rock tank - this will need to be dealt with usually best with water changes and a small bit of GFO... it could take a year or two to get rid of it all. The poster above is on the money about starting tanks with dead/dry rock - the rock is no bargain.

You do not have too much light. If anything, stressed corals will the like the spectrum from the T5s better... so you might want to turn the AIs down most of the way. Coral have to fight off some bad spectrum peaks from most diodes and this is harder when they are stressed. The T5 will put out very good light all the way around.

When you have new coralline "spots" on the glass popping up all of the time, then you are usually set. When you are sick of coralline scraping, then your tank is super mature.

Zagreus · Dec 31, 2017

jda said:
Your tank is new and you are messing with it a lot. Neither of these things will yield good results, but both of them together are even worse.

I would just leave everything alone and see how the water turns out. My guess is that the PO4 will climb like crazy since this is pretty common for a dead/dry rock tank - this will need to be dealt with usually best with water changes and a small bit of GFO... it could take a year or two to get rid of it all. The poster above is on the money about starting tanks with dead/dry rock - the rock is no bargain.

You do not have too much light. If anything, stressed corals will the like the spectrum from the T5s better... so you might want to turn the AIs down most of the way. Coral have to fight off some bad spectrum peaks from most diodes and this is harder when they are stressed. The T5 will put out very good light all the way around.

When you have new coralline "spots" on the glass popping up all of the time, then you are usually set. When you are sick of coralline scraping, then your tank is super mature.

Phill @jda knows what he is talking about. He helped me turn it around. Keep at it more good times ahead.

BoomCorals · Dec 31, 2017

Yep jda is spot on. The coralline growing is key.

Phillyd1990 · Dec 31, 2017

Thanks guys! I appreciate all the feedback! At this point im going to refrain from adding anything and just enjoy what i have letting things stabilize and grow. After all patience is key.