Sps high nutrients myth?

[vio]

The makers of it specifically state it's a specially designed bacteria blend. The blend of bacteria is a trade secret that they have yet to disclose. When Vibrant first hit the market there was a lot of discussion on these forums with the makers and some folks specifically asked what the specific blend was and the makers of Vibrant did not want to disclose as it might impact their sales if someone else started marketing the same formula.

#1 i am sorry about "specially designed bacteria blend."
#2 I have PPB meter , i NEVER try to go close to Zero , wont make sense.
# 3 i NEVER got one dose, then ......RTN.
#4 Bac 7 is a better product.
# 5 I 'think you right "secret that they have yet to disclose" that the reason of RTN. lol.
#6 NOT sure what you try to grow, i got 99% SPS,

 

[vio]

I know exactly what I'm saying. Do you?

My statement is that Vibrant is not the direct cause of the RTN. It's likely being caused by something else all together. A dose of Vibrant is not going to suddenly make your acros RTN. The bacteria literally cannot deplete your water nutrients that quickly until they multiply on the substrate and sand bed and other filtration media. Bacteria multiple quickly, don't get me wrong. But a reasonable sized tank being dosed with the recommended amount just isn't going to bottom out immediately unless the levels were already teetering on the edge of undetectable. 3 or 4 days later if your nutrients plummet, your acros no longer have water borne nutrients ,and get ****** off and decided to suicide, then yeah maybe sure, but that's not the Vibrant's fault, that's the reef keepers fault for not monitoring for that.

Posts like his simply stating something like: "one dose of Vibrant made my SPS RTN!" should be held to scrutiny, especially in the absence of any sort of evidence.

Yes,
I know what i say, but you NOT funny , or you own the comp.
You totally OUT of Reef experience.
You just a joke, try to read your statement again.
Try to convince me , what you do ?
I NEVER say one dose , i said try 1/2 of they suggest
NO need to reply.
You good.

 

[Hentz]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but would like to leave a comment here in regards to high nutrients.

I was always told to keep pristine water for SPS. I ran ZEOvit with great success, but very VERY little room for error. .5dKH swing? Goodbye a Coral or two. While I thought my SPS were so beautiful and great, I never realized until my tank now and looking back that they were so weak and brittle.

I stopped running any methods to keep nutrients low. My Chaeto Reactor on my 120 was shut down for 2ish months without my knowledge. I was feeding heavy with very very high nutrients.

During this point, I didn’t know my Reactor was off nor my nutrients were insanely high. I had daily growth on Acropora and colors that looked like I had boosted the saturation on a photo editing app.

Wasn’t until I realized my Reactor was off and I tested my nutrients. Nitrates were 15-20ppm with my Phosphates sitting around 1.49-1.53ppm. Yes, 1.53ppm at its peak!! This is when I was shocked and added a small amount of GFO to bring it down and started playing with my tank. My Corals health began to decline a little, growth and Coraline algae slowed greatly. I then hit 1.7ppm in Phosphates and realized I need to chill on feeding.

I had very little algae which I don’t blame on nutrients. Small amounts of Cyano as the tank was barely 6-7 months old, I’d throw that under new tank syndrome. And a dirty sand bed because I don’t do water changes and didn’t stir the sand.

My Sand now remains very white (with some snails added to stir). Phosphates are naturally coming down and sitting at 0.93 last I checked 3 days ago. Coral growth is back to daily growth and colors are just as vibrant as before. All thanks to natural macro algae nutrient export and a Skimmer that I let sit for a week and a half before emptying.

I’ll never chase low nutrients again. I’ve never had such thick Corals that require me to use a bit of strength to cut.

Here’s a picture of proof for my Phosphates on April 8!

 

[North Borders]

Yes,
I know what i say, but you NOT funny , or you own the comp.
You totally OUT of Reef experience.
You just a joke, try to read your statement again.
Try to convince me , what you do ?
I NEVER say one dose , i said try 1/2 of they suggest
NO need to reply.
You good.

Umm, is proper English too much to ask for? Really not sure what has you triggered. I'm merely trying to provide thoughtful, scientifically sound commentary to this discussion. Your posts in this thread thus far have not provided any of that. You're perfectly entitled to believe anything you want or think whatever you'd like to think about me. It doesn't impact me one bit.

And no, I don't own Vibrant or any stock in their company.

 

[Roggio]

Great thread; I think a lot of people are not realizing these bacteria are not multiplying in their tanks. When I take a probiotic I realize it must be taken daily and a lot of these products are the same concept. Back me up on this @UWC ?

It really seems like finding the nutrients, flow, and light that works in your tank. I’ve noticed a lot of well established tanks handle high nutrients well. Maybe it’s because the import and export is so efficient.

It’s crazy to see the contrast of a very unproductive post like @vio and some of the great posts like @Hentz. How long has your tank been set up?

 

[rosshamsandwich]

Great thread; I think a lot of people are not realizing these bacteria are not multiplying in their tanks. When I take a probiotic I realize it must be taken daily and a lot of these products are the same concept. Back me up on this @UWC ?

It really seems like finding the nutrients, flow, and light that works in your tank. I’ve noticed a lot of well established tanks handle high nutrients well. Maybe it’s because the import and export is so efficient.

It’s crazy to see the contrast of a very unproductive post like @vio and some of the great posts like @Hentz. How long has your tank been set up?

Because our fish tanks are like our Gastrointestinal Tract?

 

[UWC]

Great thread; I think a lot of people are not realizing these bacteria are not multiplying in their tanks. When I take a probiotic I realize it must be taken daily and a lot of these products are the same concept. Back me up on this @UWC ?

It really seems like finding the nutrients, flow, and light that works in your tank. I’ve noticed a lot of well established tanks handle high nutrients well. Maybe it’s because the import and export is so efficient.

It’s crazy to see the contrast of a very unproductive post like @vio and some of the great posts like @Hentz. How long has your tank been set up?

That is correct, hence the having to dose more then once. These bacteria are short lived and need to be reintroduced on a schedule to work properly, which is the same for most bacterial products

 

[Roggio]

Because our fish tanks are like our Gastrointestinal Tract?

As much as I appreciated the sarcasm there’s your answer. To dumb it down for you I was referring to bacteria being able to reproduce in their environment. Us needing to take probiotics on a regular basis was an example of that.

That is correct, hence the having to dose more then once. These bacteria are short lived and need to be reintroduced on a schedule to work properly, which is the same for most bacterial products

 

[Tft12]

I started with SPS at a time when measuring and controlling phosphate wasn’t common and my Acros looked good and grew well. I was out of the hobby for a number of years and when I came back, the trend had shifted toward meticulous control of phosphate and nitrate so I did that for awhile and my SPS looked good grew well but all the phosphate management felt tedious to me. Then I saw videos/posts/articles by Rich Ross, Sanjay, Adam at BattleCorals and I decided to relax with the nutrient control. I’ve been doing that for about 2 years, my phosphate has soared, I recently got carried with with casually dosing nitrate and it’s now well above 50, and my SPS are looking good and growing well - except for the times that my butterflies decide they are just going to eliminate a colony.

It looks like there are a lot ways to manage a successful reef these days.

 

[Centerline]

I looked at some vibrant under a microscope and did not see too much bacteria. I am not saying that they are untruthful, or anything, but I am a little skeptical about the claims. First, adding bacteria once a week for multiple weeks is weird - if it is just bacteria and it multiplied, then you would never need to add it again. Did they engineer a semi-sterile bacteria that is only able to multiply for them? Two, I would have thought that I would see more.

Does anybody else have a microscope where they can look at some?

In the end, it does not matter what it in it if it works. I suspect some kind of chemical or element that they found that could easily be duplicated if the secret got out. It could also be an oxidizer. I have no venom for the secrecy... they figured it out and the should get to profit from it.

Ya, I had wondered this myself. I was / am under the impression that bacteria will grow when they have food and the temperature is right. Not at all sure how they can induce a culture that doesn't multiply in a tank or just dies off after a week. Plenty of food for bacteria in saltwater - ALK supplements themselves are carbon sources.

 

[OriginalUserName]

Quick point, and maybe this has been addressed or is obvious/stupid, but, are ULNS systems really ULNS? What I mean is how many times have we seen a tank just loaded with pest algae but where nitrates are undetectable because of the rapid uptake by the algae? It seems likely that a tank filled with coral would behave in similar ways.

 

[Camaro Show Corals]

If you have high nutrients you can run a high alk system with elevated levels using Red Sea coral pro salt, I tried this and had great growth with lps but I lost a lot of my acros to stn and rtn I feel acros going from a lower alk system to a high alk is just asking for death so now I’m being my alk down to 8

 

[jda]

ULNS is one of the most overused words in the hobby. That and SPS - there are so many different kinds of SPS that it matters to specify which ones.

In any case, Ultra Low, to me, is lower than you can get with "natural" methods of aragonite/phosphate binding, water changes, fuges, anoxic bacteria devouring No3, etc. I have natural-seawater level nutrients using all of these, but they are not ultra low, just low at about .01p and .1n.

To go Ultra Low, you need to be using LC, GFO, Organic Carbon, etc. Then you can get below those number.

 

[Mattrg02]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but would like to leave a comment here in regards to high nutrients.

I was always told to keep pristine water for SPS. I ran ZEOvit with great success, but very VERY little room for error. .5dKH swing? Goodbye a Coral or two. While I thought my SPS were so beautiful and great, I never realized until my tank now and looking back that they were so weak and brittle.

I stopped running any methods to keep nutrients low. My Chaeto Reactor on my 120 was shut down for 2ish months without my knowledge. I was feeding heavy with very very high nutrients.

During this point, I didn’t know my Reactor was off nor my nutrients were insanely high. I had daily growth on Acropora and colors that looked like I had boosted the saturation on a photo editing app.

Wasn’t until I realized my Reactor was off and I tested my nutrients. Nitrates were 15-20ppm with my Phosphates sitting around 1.49-1.53ppm. Yes, 1.53ppm at its peak!! This is when I was shocked and added a small amount of GFO to bring it down and started playing with my tank. My Corals health began to decline a little, growth and Coraline algae slowed greatly. I then hit 1.7ppm in Phosphates and realized I need to chill on feeding.

I had very little algae which I don’t blame on nutrients. Small amounts of Cyano as the tank was barely 6-7 months old, I’d throw that under new tank syndrome. And a dirty sand bed because I don’t do water changes and didn’t stir the sand.

My Sand now remains very white (with some snails added to stir). Phosphates are naturally coming down and sitting at 0.93 last I checked 3 days ago. Coral growth is back to daily growth and colors are just as vibrant as before. All thanks to natural macro algae nutrient export and a Skimmer that I let sit for a week and a half before emptying.

I’ll never chase low nutrients again. I’ve never had such thick Corals that require me to use a bit of strength to cut.

Here’s a picture of proof for my Phosphates on April 8!

Can we get a closeup tank shot?

 

[rosshamsandwich]

the

Quick point, and maybe this has been addressed or is obvious/stupid, but, are ULNS systems really ULNS? What I mean is how many times have we seen a tank just loaded with pest algae but where nitrates are undetectable because of the rapid uptake by the algae? It seems likely that a tank filled with coral would behave in similar ways.

the nutrients are getting sucked up by all the corals thus rendering the water ULNS

 

[rosshamsandwich]

If you have high nutrients you can run a high alk system with elevated levels using Red Sea coral pro salt, I tried this and had great growth with lps but I lost a lot of my acros to stn and rtn I feel acros going from a lower alk system to a high alk is just asking for death so now I’m being my alk down to 8

how high are we talking?

 

[Potatohead]

Quick point, and maybe this has been addressed or is obvious/stupid, but, are ULNS systems really ULNS? What I mean is how many times have we seen a tank just loaded with pest algae but where nitrates are undetectable because of the rapid uptake by the algae? It seems likely that a tank filled with coral would behave in similar ways.

I think that most definitely happens.

 

[Centerline]

how high are we talking?

Likely 11 or so. I have always ran high ALK - not really a problem at all if you have fish and you feed them or feed the tank. From my experience SPS growth is very good with high alk, lighting and lots of flow BUT if your nutrients drop too far you may end up with burned tips etc. That's why programs like RedSeas works so well. High alk salt, N0P0x and Reef Energy A/B daily to ensure you have available nutrients. I have never had any LPS that seemed to enjoy low nutrient systems.

 

[Gungo]

Good thread! alot of content here! In my case I've been struggling with keeping high nutrients. I have a 100 gallon tank with Reef octopus 150 INT skimmer and a huge refugium full of chaeto! Just 1 yellow tang 4 clownfish and 1 six line wrasse. Corals lasting alot to color up but color is comming.. Im really thinking about removing all my chaeto and just skim wet to see if I can rise my nutrients..

 

[Hentz]

Can we get a closeup tank shot?

This was two days ago.