SPS noob needs some help!

[PDR]

A lot larger margin of error on tanks those sizes, plus they run their nitrates at 20-25 and po4 around 0.10.

I understand the larger margin of error, but you had made it sound like acros can't do well above 8.0, I was just giving an example of an alternate view, that's all.

Also, when it comes to nutrients, my understanding has always been that as long as they are consistently detectable, there is more than is in seawater, so you shouldn't have any issues starving corals. The reason for running higher nutrients is to have a bit of buffer. Is that not correct?

I wasn’t trying to sound defensive, just trying to shed light on variables that don’t apply to the common reefer with a 30-150 gallon tank. We don’t have a full staff of employees testing, changing filter pads, feeding every hour, etc. And the majority of us don’t have self cleaning skimmer heads, 12 xr30 pros with T5’s and 100 established colonies. So yes, you’re right, 8.5 alk can and does work for some, but for me it doesn’t. If wwc was asking me why their Joe the coral was stressed, I would just shrug and say “ shouldnt you know that?” But your title said “sps noob needs help” so I thought I would share my failures, which sound similar to what you’re going through, and what I did to reverse those failures into success’s. We’re all just trying to help. I hope your little one feels better soon.

Hey no worries, you know it can be hard to interpret tone over the internet. The little guy had a rough night but seems to be feeling better, thanks!

Let's take a couple steps back here. In hindsight, the title of this thread probably gave the wrong impression. I am not a "noob" when it comes to general reefing topics like water chemistry, lighting, general husbandry etc. I have just never kept sps before (well, I'm not counting the birdsnest I had in my first 10-gallon tank that had inadequate lighting, no dosing, lower flow, and minimal water changes and somehow thrived lol), but I am familiar with their general care requirements.

I am having some issues with all of my sps, (and some lps for that matter) not just the acros. It seems like there is something that I am missing because, on paper, they should be doing fine.

I know you believe the lighting to be the main issue, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to lighting, and I could write a small article on why I believe the par to be in the 180-200 range, but I don't really have the time for that lol. At the end of the day, the lighting is not going to be changing any time soon, so let's just assume I am right (humor me if you will ) with my par approximations. What else would you be looking at given all of the other problems I am having with my other sps?

 

[Hemmdog]

I understand the larger margin of error, but you had made it sound like acros can't do well above 8.0, I was just giving an example of an alternate view, that's all.

Also, when it comes to nutrients, my understanding has always been that as long as they are consistently detectable, there is more than is in seawater, so you shouldn't have any issues starving corals. The reason for running higher nutrients is to have a bit of buffer. Is that not correct?



Hey no worries, you know it can be hard to interpret tone over the internet. The little guy had a rough night but seems to be feeling better, thanks!

Let's take a couple steps back here. In hindsight, the title of this thread probably gave the wrong impression. I am not a "noob" when it comes to general reefing topics like water chemistry, lighting, general husbandry etc. I have just never kept sps before (well, I'm not counting the birdsnest I had in my first 10-gallon tank that had inadequate lighting, no dosing, lower flow, and minimal water changes and somehow thrived lol).

I am having some issues with all of my sps, (and some lps for that matter) not just the acros. It seems like there is something that I am missing because, on paper, they should be doing fine.

I know you believe the lighting to be the main issue, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to lighting, and I could write a small article on why I believe the par to be in the 180-200 range, but I don't really have the time for that lol. At the end of the day, the lighting is not going to be changing any time soon, so let's just assume I am right (humor me if you will ) with my par approximations. What else would you be looking at given all of the other problems I am having with my other sps?

My LFS’s owners sps tank is 10.5 alk and grows like crazy. Red Sea Coral Pro comes at 10.5alk and many people have great success, I’m just confused why when so many people here swear by low alk? This is his tank it has insane growth.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Everything I’ve read and have been told is that lower alk for lower nutrients and higher alk for higher nutrients. Anything below 0.04 is considered low from what I’ve been told.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

My LFS’s owners sps tank is 10.5 alk and grows like crazy. Red Sea Coral Pro comes at 10.5alk and many people have great success, I’m just confused why when so many people here swear by low alk? This is his tank it has insane growth.

Do you know there nutrients parameters?

 

[Hemmdog]

Do you know there nutrients parameters?

Trace always

And I modeled my system after his and don’t have the same result at all. Most of my sps got stn or rtn. My chalices are not super swollen, but my lps is doing amazing and is showing rapid growth.

Either way I need to figure something out to be able to keep sps. If I did switch salt to achieve a lower alk what’s the best way to do that and how long would it take to go safely from 10.5 to 8.0?

And is there any side effects? Like I don’t have any algae, at all, never have, besides chaeto. I believe some of that is due to higher alk.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I understand the larger margin of error, but you had made it sound like acros can't do well above 8.0, I was just giving an example of an alternate view, that's all.

Also, when it comes to nutrients, my understanding has always been that as long as they are consistently detectable, there is more than is in seawater, so you shouldn't have any issues starving corals. The reason for running higher nutrients is to have a bit of buffer. Is that not correct?



Hey no worries, you know it can be hard to interpret tone over the internet. The little guy had a rough night but seems to be feeling better, thanks!

Let's take a couple steps back here. In hindsight, the title of this thread probably gave the wrong impression. I am not a "noob" when it comes to general reefing topics like water chemistry, lighting, general husbandry etc. I have just never kept sps before (well, I'm not counting the birdsnest I had in my first 10-gallon tank that had inadequate lighting, no dosing, lower flow, and minimal water changes and somehow thrived lol), but I am familiar with their general care requirements.

I am having some issues with all of my sps, (and some lps for that matter) not just the acros. It seems like there is something that I am missing because, on paper, they should be doing fine.

I know you believe the lighting to be the main issue, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to lighting, and I could write a small article on why I believe the par to be in the 180-200 range, but I don't really have the time for that lol. At the end of the day, the lighting is not going to be changing any time soon, so let's just assume I am right (humor me if you will ) with my par approximations. What else would you be looking at given all of the other problems I am having with my other sps?

Other than doing an icp test for an elevated heavy metals or containment, I don’t know what else to recommend. Stray voltage maybe? I don’t believe you have adequate par and but maybe I’m wrong. I really can’t see how 40 watts of light would dramatically increase par just because it’s a kessil. I thought my single 52 was pumping out 500 par when in reality it was 125-150. Now I have 200 watts of power and the par is only 450-500 3” below the surface.
I believe 9.5 alk is too high for 0.03 po4 as well.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Trace always

And I modeled my system after his and don’t have the same result at all. Most of my sps got stn or rtn. My chalices are not super swollen, but my lps is doing amazing and is showing rapid growth.

Either way I need to figure something out to be able to keep sps. If I did switch salt to achieve a lower alk what’s the best way to do that and how long would it take to go safely from 10.5 to 8.0?

And is there any side effects? Like I don’t have any algae, at all, never have, besides chaeto. I believe some of that is due to higher alk.

Did you go T5?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Other than doing an icp test for an elevated heavy metals or containment, I don’t know what else to recommend. Stray voltage maybe? I don’t believe you have adequate par and but maybe I’m wrong. I really can’t see how 40 watts of light would dramatically increase par just because it’s a kessil. I thought my single 52 was pumping out 500 par when in reality it was 125-150. Now I have 200 watts of power and the par is only 450-500 3” below the surface.
I believe 9.5 alk is too high for 0.03 po4 as well.

I just skimmed through a BRS video about the a360 and their par numbers weren’t as high as you predict with those maxed out at 100% at 90 watts. I’ve been on other threads with @randyBRS about converting lux to par and even he says it’s not a reliable calculation.

 

[Hemmdog]

Did you go T5?

Hybrid t5 and 360’s

 

[Hemmdog]

Hybrid t5 and 360’s

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

The higher the alk, the higher the nutrients
The lower the alk , the lower the nutrients

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

T5/Kessil hybrid isn’t the same as a 6-8 bulb T5.
Seems like acros are much healthier with adequate par from t5 or metal halides. I know my acros grew like crazy 10 years ago with 250 watt metal halide over a 29 gallon biocube. I never tested anything. I didn’t test for alk, cal, mag, etc and they seemed to grow overnight.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

 

[Rich Klein]

Yes I do have a sump, but it is pretty low flow. Side problem, but I am having issues with my sicce return pumps (two different pumps in different tanks), even after thoroughly cleaning them, they are producing far less flow than they should be according to the sicce chart. So my sump only has about a 2x turnover.

Once my dosers come in, I will be dosing them to the sump, and as of today, I will have a spare powerhead I can use in the sump.

I put 2 power heads (for redundancy) in my return chamber where I dose. I get a lot less precipitation that way, and its well mixed before entering the tank.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Branching staghorns need higher light. Some smooth skin acros can survive in lower light, but not staghorns.

 

[Daniel Waters]

@PDR my only other suggestion for you would be to do some broadcast feeding a a couple times a week (if you're not already doing so). Coral frenzy, reef roids, reef chili, or some similar type of coral food.

In regards to lighting, I did better with my acros under T5 lighting than I ever did with just LEDs. However, this might also be because I was not getting the same amount of par when I was running just LEDs. Plenty of people run successful tanks under just kessils, so I'm not sure you can point to that as a cause if your issues.

In many cases I think it may just take time for your tank to mature longer. Is it at least a year old? I'm not sure what magically happens during this maturation period, but I do think there is some truth to it. We are dealing with mini eco systems, so it wouldn't surprise me that there are multitudes of inner workings and relationships that we can't fully understand or measure. Lighting, flow, alk, nitrates, po4, and such get a lot of attention because we are able to quantify these things.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I have see my frags acclimate better when my ALK was 7.5 vs 9.5 so def something to consider. But don't believe this alone can be an issue. Don't underestimating your light intensity - 200 PAR is a lot of light coming from LED especially when a new sps frag is trying to get acclimated to your system. I would remove all the SPS from your rock structure and make a rack on the bottom corner, take a few close up pictures weekly; or better yet cut some healthy tissue and let them regenerate. Another thing Id look into is metals (magnet, pump, etc), source water (TDS meter if your not using), possible contamination (scented candle), possible pest, dosing aminos, and avoiding tinkering and trying too fast to get the corals healthy. Acros can take months to tell us how they are feeling and until they do we hobbyist remain inpatient.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I have see my frags acclimate better when my ALK was 7.5 vs 9.5 so def something to consider. But don't believe this alone can be an issue. Don't underestimating your light intensity - 200 PAR is a lot of light coming from LED especially when a new sps frag is trying to get acclimated to your system. I would remove all the SPS from your rock structure and make a rack on the bottom corner, take a few close up pictures weekly; or better yet cut some healthy tissue and let them regenerate. Another thing Id look into is metals (magnet, pump, etc), source water (TDS meter if your not using), possible contamination (scented candle), possible pest, dosing aminos, and avoiding tinkering and trying too fast to get the corals healthy. Acros can take months to tell us how they are feeling and until they do we hobbyist remain inpatient.

200 par is not a lot of light for a staghorns acropora. It’s adequate at best, and I believe they are receiving less than 100. They are starving

 

[Ashish Patel]

200 par is not a lot of light for a staghorns acropora. It’s adequate at best, and I believe they are receiving less than 100. They are starving

A new frags first thought when put into the tank is not "I need light", its I need to survive and adjust to multiple new parameters and 2 most important would be flow and food. He has his Kessils at 100% intensity the PAR reading of 220 coming from LED is very powerful for newly transported, most likely dipped and stressed corals. I made this mistake already and thought 200-250 par was fine with my radions at 100%, But its too much better start of 100-150 PAR and slowly work them to 200-300 Par. Aslong as they have stable water and good flow they will grow much faster and more importantly encrust immediately