SPS Setup Check/ Advice Please :-)

[jonny19ireland]

Hi all, I'm have a sumpless 45G tank setup for a few years now and now hoping to keep sps.

Slimmer and Reactors: I'm running a deltec MCE600 skimmer, a DD 20w UV, and a small Ozone unit. Will also have a Rowaphos reactor.

Lighting: I've recently upgraded the lights to LEDs as they seemed pretty good from all the discussions and easier on the pocket than other options (http://www.ukmarinelighting.co.uk/e...-marine-aquarium-dimmable-led-unit-275-p.html). Pretty sure they're up for the job of sps, they've 120deg lenses and mounted about 5-6 inches above the tank.

Flow: Not sure about flow yet, may need to upgrade my poweheads as they're old and I'm not too sure of they're output.

Parameter Stability: Gonna invest in a dosing unit (I currently manual does the Red Sea ABC elements) and not sure if I'll run a Triton, RedSea ABC or even a Zeovit system (some help here would be appreciated). RedSea is quite expensive to run at the moment so ideally want to change to the best option when I invest in a doser.

Filtration: I'm wondering if two AquaOne Aquis1250 canister filters will provide enough filtration (along with the skimmer and reactor) to keep my nutrient levels low. My cabinet is pretty small so they're about the max size I can fit.

Sorry for all the non US brands but I'm in Ireland and our aquarium stores are pretty few and far between and mostly stock European brands.

Hoping some of you more experienced guys can help me get this set up to maximise success given the constraints.

 

[reefwiser]

Canister filters can be tough to run on a Saltwater tank. They will clog fast causing the flow thur the ceramic bio media to slow over time. Causing die off of bacteria. So you really have to keep the pre-filter clean.
Your LED is just a standard Black Box unit you will need to watch that you don't turn the led's too bright.

You might want to add a ATO like a Tunze 3155

 

[jonny19ireland]

Canister filters can be tough to run on a Saltwater tank. They will clog fast causing the flow thur the ceramic bio media to slow over time. Causing die off of bacteria. So you really have to keep the pre-filter clean.
Your LED is just a standard Black Box unit you will need to watch that you don't turn the led's too bright.

You might want to add a ATO like a Tunze 3155

Thanks for the response. Yup, I've only been using canister filters on the tank so far for the last 3yrs but have learned the hard way to be diligent with their maintenance as you say.

With the LEDs, I have them on a 10hr sunrise to sunset program to ramp them up to 60% (for about 1 hr) intensity over the course of the day.... thinking slowly adjusting that to 80% but ideally would like guidance on that too .... very scared of accidentally cooking my livestock.

That ATO is definitely on my "to buy" list. Been looking at the BRS video series for a while now and that and the Zeovit system on their BRS160 have definitely piqued my interest.

 

[reefwiser]

I don't currently use LED's i did that for two years went back to MH/LED combo less shading issues. An I didn't want to buy nor could I fit anymore LED's on this tank.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

... very scared of accidentally cooking my livestock.

You'll need a Par or lux meter to determine the intensity. Also you'll want to acclimate the tank slowly to the increased light. Ya kinda need to decide on the Par levels you want to work in and balance the nutrients to that. Personally I'm becoming more and more a fan of a lot of light.

a good read.https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666

This is how I grow xenia and acros at 600+par. Slightly higher nutrints slightly lower alk(7-9).

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Cool discussion so far. Bumping for more input. #SPSexperts

 

[neverenough]

Parameter Stability: Gonna invest in a dosing unit (I currently manual does the Red Sea ABC elements) and not sure if I'll run a Triton, RedSea ABC or even a Zeovit system (some help here would be appreciated). RedSea is quite expensive to run at the moment so ideally want to change to the best option when I invest in a doser.

The Zeovit system will not replace your current Red Sea ABC as it is a form of nutrient control. You will still need some sort of 2 part, calcium reactor, or kalkwasser (until you exceed the daily limits you can maintain with kalk )

 

[hybridazn]

Running a zeovit system on a sumpless setup will be difficult, I only say this because of the reactor and how cumbersome they are. Most need to be run submerged as well.

 

[jonny19ireland]

You'll need a Par or lux meter to determine the intensity. Also you'll want to acclimate the tank slowly to the increased light. Ya kinda need to decide on the Par levels you want to work in and balance the nutrients to that. Personally I'm becoming more and more a fan of a lot of light.

a good read.https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666

This is how I grow xenia and acros at 600+par. Slightly higher nutrints slightly lower alk(7-9).

Ok cool. That's sound advice. I'll get the light to where I want it to be (slowly), get the flow how I want it to be, maintain the nutrient levels with two canister filters and frequent water changes and maintenance.... and hopefully then address what system I maintain parameters with.

 

[jonny19ireland]

The Zeovit system will not replace your current Red Sea ABC as it is a form of nutrient control. You will still need some sort of 2 part, calcium reactor, or kalkwasser (until you exceed the daily limits you can maintain with kalk )

Oh right, I honestly thought the Zeo system used some special rock in a reactor to keep phosphates and nitrates in check, and then you does the little blue bottles to keep all other parameters at the levels you want?

I'll look into the Triton system so. Ideally I want to move away from the RedSea ABC doses as they don't add the other elements

 

[ksfulk]

ZeoVit is for nutrient management - not for maintaining Alkalinity or Calcium or even trace elements. I would recommend reading the ZeoVit start up guide to see what the system can do and what it does not do - found here. I run Zeo, and it does a great job with managing nutrients, but I have to maintain alk/calc with 2 part and water changes are a necessary part of the system. It would be difficult to run the system without a sump, but there are work around if you wanted to.

Triton is a bit more inclusive, but also requires a large refugium and dosing to maintain alk/calc levels consistent.

 

[Rakie]

I would not recommend ZeoVit -- Personally, I feel the old ULNS system is outdated. The most successful ULNS systems dose a million little bottles of supplements because the very system itself strips them all from the water. The system then has you incorporate raised levels of other elements to combat the negative effects of running ULNS. The corals eventually start to pale over time, and the only cure is buying more little bottles and increasing dosing.

Don't get me wrong -- ULNS works. But I do not believe it is optimal.

Nutrient levels -- I think running 5-10 no3, and .01-.03 po4 is ideal. It's also significantly easier than a zeovit system (to me, at least). Personally, I don't think a lot of people really need to worry too much about no3/po4 unless it gets way too low, or way too high. The current tank of the month (Spotlight) claims he does not, and has not, testing nitrates or phosphates. I'm running into more people like that, and it's really changed the way I'm looking at nutrients in the system.

Why i think you should find a way to make a 'fuge -- I recently made a whole slew of mistakes in a very short time frame, all based around running my nutrients down to nothing. My tank was running quite successfully at an no3/po4 of around 8-10/0-.01. My corals looked at their best, with great PE when I was running my tank that way. Messing with that really messed things up for me. I dropped my no3/po4 to zero, my tank was basically sterile and it allowed a dino outbreak.. My tank is slowly coming back around now, and I think nutrients and the implementation of a fuge really helped that (Yes, the fuge does lower no3/po4, but it also competes with dino's -- at least anecdotally).

I would suggest getting the biggest, hob filter humanly possible to fit in a bunch of Chaeto. I'm a firm believer that it really will make your life much easier.

A cheapskate sump idea, if you're looking... -- There's a really cool thread i'll never find again -- A guy basically took a custom acrylic tank, and put it behind (and above) his Display. He drilled it and installed 3 bulkhead 'overflows' that empty into his display tank. He mounted it onto his wall with brackets and shelving -- Couldn't have been more than 5 gallons. He used it to hold a skimmer, and fuge. It was like 95% behind his canopy naturally, except the skimmate cup that was poking out a lil.

 

[jonny19ireland]

I would not recommend ZeoVit -- Personally, I feel the old ULNS system is outdated. The most successful ULNS systems dose a million little bottles of supplements because the very system itself strips them all from the water. The system then has you incorporate raised levels of other elements to combat the negative effects of running ULNS. The corals eventually start to pale over time, and the only cure is buying more little bottles and increasing dosing.

Don't get me wrong -- ULNS works. But I do not believe it is optimal.

Nutrient levels -- I think running 5-10 no3, and .01-.03 po4 is ideal. It's also significantly easier than a zeovit system (to me, at least). Personally, I don't think a lot of people really need to worry too much about no3/po4 unless it gets way too low, or way too high. The current tank of the month (Spotlight) claims he does not, and has not, testing nitrates or phosphates. I'm running into more people like that, and it's really changed the way I'm looking at nutrients in the system.

Why i think you should find a way to make a 'fuge -- I recently made a whole slew of mistakes in a very short time frame, all based around running my nutrients down to nothing. My tank was running quite successfully at an no3/po4 of around 8-10/0-.01. My corals looked at their best, with great PE when I was running my tank that way. Messing with that really messed things up for me. I dropped my no3/po4 to zero, my tank was basically sterile and it allowed a dino outbreak.. My tank is slowly coming back around now, and I think nutrients and the implementation of a fuge really helped that (Yes, the fuge does lower no3/po4, but it also competes with dino's -- at least anecdotally).

I would suggest getting the biggest, hob filter humanly possible to fit in a bunch of Chaeto. I'm a firm believer that it really will make your life much easier.

A cheapskate sump idea, if you're looking... -- There's a really cool thread i'll never find again -- A guy basically took a custom acrylic tank, and put it behind (and above) his Display. He drilled it and installed 3 bulkhead 'overflows' that empty into his display tank. He mounted it onto his wall with brackets and shelving -- Couldn't have been more than 5 gallons. He used it to hold a skimmer, and fuge. It was like 95% behind his canopy naturally, except the skimmate cup that was poking out a lil.

Lots of information there to ponder. I'll rethink my setup so. Was 100% thinking of a hang on Fuge idea.... just got to find one available in Europe.

 

[Rakie]

Well, it doesn't exactly need to be a hang on fuge -- A big hang on filter (Aqua Clear) a Breeder Box (Marina large box) or anything that holds water will work just fine. You could even use a big steralite (plastic bin) if you wanted.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Well, it doesn't exactly need to be a hang on fuge -- A big hang on filter (Aqua Clear) a Breeder Box (Marina large box) or anything that holds water will work just fine. You could even use a big steralite (plastic bin) if you wanted.

The Aquaclear 100 is HUGE
https://www.google.com/search?q=aqu...367TAhVN1GMKHVnLDDYQ_AUIBygC&biw=1920&bih=901

remember to clean a hob fuge. Id avoid sand and rubble.

 

[Rakie]

Here's one of the little boxes i'm talking about (Called a breeder box)

Those plastic walls on the inside come out, you could use a tiny 1-2 watt powerhead to pump like 80gph+ through it. Put a little light on it, and throw in some chaeto for a little more stability.

@saltyfilmfolks -- You're right, that's why I like this above a HOB, less sand will get into and ruin it... The replacement pump (I don't suggest using an Aqua lifter) is like $5 on amazon.

 

[Rakie]

Pictures help, so here's a way more obvious one from the backside

 

[hybridazn]

While there is a TON of fantastic advise here, let's not forget that the OP stated that this is a 45g display. If he goes cluttering it up with HOB equipment he won't have any room for corals lol!

Is there anyway you can just get a sump going? Maybe see if you can get a over the top overflow box like a lifereef or something to get a sump going. It would honestly make your life (and display much cleaner) much easier

 

[ws6kid]

How often do you do water changes? The nice thing about 45 gallons is that you can easily rely on water changes for most of the "keeping it clean" aspect. The fuge is nice for lots of extras, but you can easily manage a 50% water change with a brute trash can, so if things get out of control, you can replace water rather quickly.

The smaller water volume will mean larger swings with the evap, so I agree with the above. Get a good auto top off.

Right along with that, make sure you are topping off with 0 TDS in the water. Again, smaller water volumes, so every little thing will count more.

Lights are really a personal decision. You can grow all corals under all of the available lighting options. Just be cautious as mentioned before that LEDs can easily burn new coral and everything will need acclimated.

I ran my 40g breeder for 2 years with a HOB skimmer and power filter. Used a 6 bulb ATI T5,a bubble magus doser (ESV 2 Part), and a Tunze ATO. Tank was packed with all sorts of coral. Kind of miss the simplicity.

Also recommend a good variable powerhead. MP10 or Jebao RW8 would be nice I think. Just make sure it changes throughout the day so you dont get heavy spots where nothing grows. Does your power filter have a surface skimming function? That was a must for my HOB skimmer. Hated the film on the water surface.

Keep it simple.

 

[Rakie]

While there is a TON of fantastic advise here, let's not forget that the OP stated that this is a 45g display. If he goes cluttering it up with HOB equipment he won't have any room for corals lol!

Is there anyway you can just get a sump going? Maybe see if you can get a over the top overflow box like a lifereef or something to get a sump going. It would honestly make your life (and display much cleaner) much easier

Not hang IN tank, Hang on Back. Plenty of room for corals haha