Do you have the link to the article? This link seems to only go to his we front store. Thanks!
SPS still not thriving...Ideas?
- Thread starter ps2cho
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Do you have the link to the article? This link seems to only go to his we front store. Thanks!
sealbeach1
Community Member
Finding the right amount of light from LED's can get very tricky, I have had them for about 2 years and I have browned out many SPS pieces before I think I have found the sweet spot... I have AOL vegas that I run no higher then 40%. I supplement that with Metal Halides running about 7 hours a day. I did finally buy a par meter and that really helped finding where the hotspots were.
DFW
Active Member
You seem to be implying that crack is a good thing! Crack is a dead end hell on earth!!! If this product is "acro crack", as you have stated, that would mean that it makes the corals feel good for a while, but eventually it destroys them! But I will read the article at your provided link, and look at the mentioned product!
ps2cho
Well-Known Member
You know what....You guys have to be right. I just realized the amount of algae growth on my glass has dropped off over the last few months. I used to be doing it weekly, and I just realized its been 2 weeks and there isn't even hardly a film on the glass. Same with corraline algae..it just kinda stopped growing.
And yeh no link to that article.
What do you guys think of phyto/zooplankton as an additional nutrient?
edit: btw flow is no issue in my tank. I have wp-25, rw-40 and an mp10 running for a total of 75x turnover. Each week I have to move sand since it blows it out in a corner of the tank.
And yeh no link to that article.
What do you guys think of phyto/zooplankton as an additional nutrient?
edit: btw flow is no issue in my tank. I have wp-25, rw-40 and an mp10 running for a total of 75x turnover. Each week I have to move sand since it blows it out in a corner of the tank.
Last edited:
cdness
2006 - Present
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,988
- Reaction score
- 165
- Location
- West Fargo, ND
- What state or country do you live in
- North Dakota
There is a difference between a "dirty" tank and a "healthy" tank... When people say it needs to be more dirty, they are talking about the added nutrients for the corals to feed on. This can be the smaller granule coral food, powdered stuff, fish eggs, or even live foods like Phyto or Rotifers. Or just feed the tank more and have fat frequently pooping fish to feed the corals throughout the day...
I ran into the same issue you are not too long ago. I have unexplainable deaths and I couldn't figure it all out. However after increasing feeding, decreasing skimming, and increasing the white spectrum of the LEDs the tank is coming back around. I love the AlgaGen phyto and pods and try to acquire some whenever I can to add some live foods to the tank. I no longer run GFO or carbon in reactors and do not run socks on the tank. My Alk runs high around 10-11 DKH but it seems to be my tank's sweet spot with Calcium at 440 - 460 and mag around 1480.
I ran into the same issue you are not too long ago. I have unexplainable deaths and I couldn't figure it all out. However after increasing feeding, decreasing skimming, and increasing the white spectrum of the LEDs the tank is coming back around. I love the AlgaGen phyto and pods and try to acquire some whenever I can to add some live foods to the tank. I no longer run GFO or carbon in reactors and do not run socks on the tank. My Alk runs high around 10-11 DKH but it seems to be my tank's sweet spot with Calcium at 440 - 460 and mag around 1480.
ps2cho
Well-Known Member
I am going away for work for 3 weeks soon...
Does it seem possible to mix Seachem reef plus and trace elements and then hook it up to an aqualifter on my apex and dose it automatically?
is that smart or asking for trouble?
Does it seem possible to mix Seachem reef plus and trace elements and then hook it up to an aqualifter on my apex and dose it automatically?
is that smart or asking for trouble?
ps2cho
Well-Known Member
So I decided to go with Red Sea Reef Energy A&B program. I have been dosing half the recommended since Wednesday so I just dosed the third day and I can tell you that ALREADY I am seeing improvements. I haven't cleaned the glass in 2 weeks, and this morning it had a nice algae sheen on it. The colors on many of my green SPS are more pronounced and the coralline algae is far more purple. In the past few months it was more of a washed out light pink, now it is actually purple. I even spotted a small amount of it on the glass too which I haven't scrubbed off in months and months.
I think my issue was this for future readers:
I removed a bunch of rock from the DT because I had an excessive amount, I also added some new sand and because of that I was dosing microbacter7 to ensure that I kept bacteria populations up. I believe that this caused everything to look unhappy. So I made it WORSE but doing a number of frequent water changes and even more bacteria thinking that it was the rock change that did it. In fact, it was probably perfectly fine and I didn't need to use any MB7 at all.
I got a little extra Xmas cash and I am itching for a clam, but I know that the start of this program needs some time before I jump to a clam. I'll let it go for at least a month and if I continue to see improvements, maybe then I will grab some.
PS: This morning when I checked my calcium and alk they took a small dip from 3 days ago. I bet its because the corals are uptaking more now. I dropped from 9.5 to 9.2 and ca 440 to 430. I want to get my alk down to 8.5 so I will let it drop .1 per day til I get to 8.5 then increase the 2-part and stabilize at 8.5dkh and 450 ca.
I think my issue was this for future readers:
I removed a bunch of rock from the DT because I had an excessive amount, I also added some new sand and because of that I was dosing microbacter7 to ensure that I kept bacteria populations up. I believe that this caused everything to look unhappy. So I made it WORSE but doing a number of frequent water changes and even more bacteria thinking that it was the rock change that did it. In fact, it was probably perfectly fine and I didn't need to use any MB7 at all.
I got a little extra Xmas cash and I am itching for a clam, but I know that the start of this program needs some time before I jump to a clam. I'll let it go for at least a month and if I continue to see improvements, maybe then I will grab some.
PS: This morning when I checked my calcium and alk they took a small dip from 3 days ago. I bet its because the corals are uptaking more now. I dropped from 9.5 to 9.2 and ca 440 to 430. I want to get my alk down to 8.5 so I will let it drop .1 per day til I get to 8.5 then increase the 2-part and stabilize at 8.5dkh and 450 ca.
Kennyb1
Community Member
I went through the same exact problems recently. It ended up being a combination of lights being to low (LEDs) and running to low of nutrients. As soon as I put acropower on a Doser and had hair algae start popping up growth exploded. As soon as I got a few tufts growth tips started popping up everywhere. Another thing I found that you may want to look at is if you have a ramp time how long is your maximum par. sometimes i think you can actually end up starving your corals of light if its not high enough long enough.
I'm beginning to be a bit of an advocate of Triton's testing. I recently crashed almost all my acros (some I had going on 2 years) over about a month and a half time period. I went from 50+ different acros to 7. Red planet, as you stated seems to be the most tolerant but I almost lost all my red planet even (managed to save a couple pieces). My parameters were always stable, at least the ones I could test for (Alk, mg, ca, k, fe). My triton test revealed high copper, zinc, and iodine. Although its hard for me to have a good understanding of the test, due to changing a ton of water prior to sending out the sample, it still let me know there were other things that needed to be addressed, other than the normal parameters we test for.
Do you run GAC? I was but I believe I was not running nearly enough. Now I am running about triple what I was before.
Do you run GAC? I was but I believe I was not running nearly enough. Now I am running about triple what I was before.
MattL22
Valuable Member
I think jc brings up a good point but I'd be careful adding a lot of aa / food nutrients to bring nutrients up too fast just do it slowly I'd try slowly lowering alk to around 8 first and maybe do an extra feeding a day if u add too much all the sudden one day u will have too much nutrients and that becomes a lot of work to lower them just make changes slowly
Is kinda my point
Is kinda my point
s2minute
Community Member
On my system, i find keeping Alk between 7-8 is best and an Ca level of 400+. I use a DIY LED fixture of 144 leds. I doze a kalk/vin mixture 24/7.
I use Cheato on a reverse photo. I'm currently working on an Algae Scrubber. As far as a "dirty" tank. I used to use a 200 micron filter sock 24/7 but now i only use it during weekly maint. Without it, the system gets a more natural feeding. I have tons of pods. Though, after a tragic event with Marine Velvet, i have one of two fish that survived is still with me. Other than that, after a 93 day [FONT=arial, sans-serif]quarantine, mv is long gone.
Not trying to highjack so sorry. Just trying to give you guys an idea of my "dirty" tank. Since then, I've been concentrating on building my coral population. Atm, i really don't have much more room left to safely space new additions. My Ph remains between 7.8 -8.0 during winter,(windows closed). I use one of the most agressive skimmers on the market,(an ETS 1500XR). Since not using a filter sock i find that i rarely have to feed my remaining maroon clown or for that matter, it's host bubble tips. The clown feeds almost exclusively on the pods that live on the back pane of the DT. Every two weeks i preform a 50 Gal WC and each week, i'll put the sock back on and use a powerhead to blow out the LR and DT bottom. Once the water column clears of the detritus storm,(which helps feed the tank), i'll repeat over and over till there is little left.
My corals are doing well and i notice rapid growth for many of the sps and lps species. This summer, i will again repopulate my DT with fish after 6-8 weeks QT. I have to note that at one point for a 2.5 month period, i attempted to dose vodka. Being VERY cautious i eventually raised the dose to 7 ml per day. What i did notice while doing this. The Bac really thrive off the additions and not only help feed the corals but out compete micro algae. Also, my sps color literally glows with pastel color. To help compensate for the eventual depression of Ph due to this, i cut back the amount of vin used in the kalk mix by less than half. I also started using ROX 0.8 which i change every 2 weeks as well. So, as of now vin/kalk, ROX 0.8, agressive skimming and weekly mait. that's it. My corals seem to love it. [/FONT]
I use Cheato on a reverse photo. I'm currently working on an Algae Scrubber. As far as a "dirty" tank. I used to use a 200 micron filter sock 24/7 but now i only use it during weekly maint. Without it, the system gets a more natural feeding. I have tons of pods. Though, after a tragic event with Marine Velvet, i have one of two fish that survived is still with me. Other than that, after a 93 day [FONT=arial, sans-serif]quarantine, mv is long gone.
Not trying to highjack so sorry. Just trying to give you guys an idea of my "dirty" tank. Since then, I've been concentrating on building my coral population. Atm, i really don't have much more room left to safely space new additions. My Ph remains between 7.8 -8.0 during winter,(windows closed). I use one of the most agressive skimmers on the market,(an ETS 1500XR). Since not using a filter sock i find that i rarely have to feed my remaining maroon clown or for that matter, it's host bubble tips. The clown feeds almost exclusively on the pods that live on the back pane of the DT. Every two weeks i preform a 50 Gal WC and each week, i'll put the sock back on and use a powerhead to blow out the LR and DT bottom. Once the water column clears of the detritus storm,(which helps feed the tank), i'll repeat over and over till there is little left.
My corals are doing well and i notice rapid growth for many of the sps and lps species. This summer, i will again repopulate my DT with fish after 6-8 weeks QT. I have to note that at one point for a 2.5 month period, i attempted to dose vodka. Being VERY cautious i eventually raised the dose to 7 ml per day. What i did notice while doing this. The Bac really thrive off the additions and not only help feed the corals but out compete micro algae. Also, my sps color literally glows with pastel color. To help compensate for the eventual depression of Ph due to this, i cut back the amount of vin used in the kalk mix by less than half. I also started using ROX 0.8 which i change every 2 weeks as well. So, as of now vin/kalk, ROX 0.8, agressive skimming and weekly mait. that's it. My corals seem to love it. [/FONT]
ps2cho
Well-Known Member
Do you guys think that I have my LEDs high enough? It ramps from 0 to 45% between 9am and 7pm...it is at the max for 2hrs total.
Some of the sps still have no polyp extention at all.
Some of the sps still have no polyp extention at all.
ps2cho
Well-Known Member
So its been a month...everything was going great until about 2 weeks ago. All of a sudden the tank started getting cloudy and I am losing more colonies.
This is so infuriating.
It seems that my No3 and Po4 has increased, but my alk and ca have been rock solid.
1.025
8.0 ph
12 nitrate
.12 po4
8.5 alk
450 ca
1340 mg
Could the increase from 0.05-.12 po4 and 5 to 12 no3 really cause RTN?
This is so infuriating.
It seems that my No3 and Po4 has increased, but my alk and ca have been rock solid.
1.025
8.0 ph
12 nitrate
.12 po4
8.5 alk
450 ca
1340 mg
Could the increase from 0.05-.12 po4 and 5 to 12 no3 really cause RTN?
Braves Fan
Valuable Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2009
- Messages
- 2,033
- Reaction score
- 1,351
- Location
- D'Iberville Mississippi
- What state or country do you live in
- Mississippi
I will admit,,,, pretty much all the people who have replyed in your thread know way more than I do when it comes to keeping SPS corals. I will also say that if I can grow SPS corals,,, anyone can grow SPS corals. I may not get as fast of growth as some/most, but I do get growth, and pretty much the only corals I kill, knock on wood, is when I don't acclimate a new frag as well as I should and try and rush getting into its forever home in my rock scape. Soooo, I am going to throw some advice at you here, with the disclaimer of, I am not a SPS Coral Whisper, I was where you are at with your system not that long ago, when it comes to losing corals and maintaining my system in a way to keep my corals happy and not losing them. If your system were mine ,,,, this is what I would do ,,,,,
The first thing I learned, stability is the key in keeping SPS corals,no matter what I do to my system, everything goes back to maintaining that stability in the tank ,,,,, same, same, same. First off I would, stop using your dosing pumps, I would stop dosing Kalk to your tank, I wouldn't run carbon, if you are and I would stop dosing SPS coral food to your tank.
When it comes to flow in your tank, I can't tell you if you have enough or to little, what I will tell you is this,,, Watch some You Tube Videos with SPS tanks. Look for how sps polyps react to the flow in those tanks & try and emulate that in your tank. A picture of your tank would also help in this thread, it would allow us to see if your rock scape is conducive to providing good flow through out your system. You don't want direct flow on your corals, that will kill corals just as quick as anything else, indirect is what you want, ask me how I know that
The fish you have in your system, 60g DT & 20g sump should provide enough food for your corals. You don't have a lot of fish, but you don't have a lot of tank either and a couple of those fish are good sized fish.
Water changes: You want to do away with these monthly water changes you are doing and go to weekly water changes. I would keep the size of the water changes to a max of 5 gallons maybe go up to 6 gallons at some point, but start out at 5 gallons. By doing weekly water changes, your tank will be more stable when it comes to Phosphates and Nitrates, they won't be climbing for a whole month before the next water change. Try and match the water for the change to as close as you can get it to the temps in your display tank. I start mixing my water with a large pump, mixes the water well, but the water temp gets up to about 87 with that pump. After I get the salinity where I want it, I switch to a smaller pump, and let it run for 24 hours, this smaller pump, over 24 hours will bring the water temp down to 78. The temp in my display tank is 79, so I don't have that big of a swing when I do the water change and it only stays there for a bit, until it gets mixed with the water already in the display tank.
Water Testing, do away with testing every three days as you say your are doing, you want to test every other day. My guess is you are testing every 3rd day and dosing your tank up to your target numbers, that's a big swing or at least a bigger swing than it needs to be, we don't want big swings, we want small swings. Test in the afternoon around 4 to 5 pm as best as you can.
Tank Parameters,,,, I may get blasted here,,, but I am sure I am sure I will get blasted for other things I have already said in this post Make the target numbers in your tank ,,, Alk. 9.0 dkh Calcium 450 So, why am I telling you to make your Alk. target number 9.0 dkh when everyone else is telling you to make it a low 8 number. I was doing the same low 8 dkh in my tank at one time. The problem is water changes, the Alk. from the salt I was using was pushing my Alk. number up to a high 8 dkh number after the water change. Tank would take a few days for the Alk. to drop back down to my target number, a level where I could dose, if it did before the next water change. What you want to do is get your target Alk. number above the swings from the salt you are using. If you are having to dose even after the water change, you will be able to keep your tank more stable. I got that advice from a friend, has made my life a lot simpler
To run GFO or to not run GFO You don't have a large system, I suggest you buy this:
http://www.nextreef.com/images/Shorty/Shorty.jpg
Its a quality reactor & the size you need for your system. I would run GFO if I were you, not a lot, 1/2 cup at best. you will need to check your Phosphate numbers for a time to see just what your numbers are at. I watched a video yesterday about Phosphates where the man giving the lecture said even a 1. something Phosphate number isn't a bad thing. I am sure he is right, but not being a " SPS Coral Whisper " what I am wanting in my system is stability, even when it comes to a Phosphate number. I couldn't tell you the last time I checked the Phosphate or Nitrate numbers in my tank. I let the corals tell me what I need to do at this point. I am sure I over feed my fish, not to the extreme though. Corals are alive and growing so I really don't care at this point what my Phosphate or Nitrate numbers are at.
Lights,,,, this is a tough one, so many brands of lights putting all different levels of Par into a tank, and the depth of your tank comes into play also. I started off with AI Sol Blues and upgraded to Hydras. But,,,to give you a easy,,, simple,,, answer here ,,,, if you are using LED light which most people with new tanks are using, this is what I would do, you are going to have to play with this and let your corals tell you what you need to do, keep in mind this is just a starting point with your lights. Place your lights about 10 to 11 inches over your tank, don't run your white lights more than 40% of their capable percentage. At some point your you will get the feel of what your corals can take & most likely raise the light percentage. We just don't want to be killing corals with your lights which is a easy thing to do.
I am sure I am not addressing some issue here, but doing this stuff has got me from where I was at, like you, killing corals, and onto being able to keep corals alive. Always keep in mind, stability, the smaller your system, the more you need stability and smaller the swings in your tank you can have. Always think same same same
The first thing I learned, stability is the key in keeping SPS corals,no matter what I do to my system, everything goes back to maintaining that stability in the tank ,,,,, same, same, same. First off I would, stop using your dosing pumps, I would stop dosing Kalk to your tank, I wouldn't run carbon, if you are and I would stop dosing SPS coral food to your tank.
When it comes to flow in your tank, I can't tell you if you have enough or to little, what I will tell you is this,,, Watch some You Tube Videos with SPS tanks. Look for how sps polyps react to the flow in those tanks & try and emulate that in your tank. A picture of your tank would also help in this thread, it would allow us to see if your rock scape is conducive to providing good flow through out your system. You don't want direct flow on your corals, that will kill corals just as quick as anything else, indirect is what you want, ask me how I know that
The fish you have in your system, 60g DT & 20g sump should provide enough food for your corals. You don't have a lot of fish, but you don't have a lot of tank either and a couple of those fish are good sized fish.
Water changes: You want to do away with these monthly water changes you are doing and go to weekly water changes. I would keep the size of the water changes to a max of 5 gallons maybe go up to 6 gallons at some point, but start out at 5 gallons. By doing weekly water changes, your tank will be more stable when it comes to Phosphates and Nitrates, they won't be climbing for a whole month before the next water change. Try and match the water for the change to as close as you can get it to the temps in your display tank. I start mixing my water with a large pump, mixes the water well, but the water temp gets up to about 87 with that pump. After I get the salinity where I want it, I switch to a smaller pump, and let it run for 24 hours, this smaller pump, over 24 hours will bring the water temp down to 78. The temp in my display tank is 79, so I don't have that big of a swing when I do the water change and it only stays there for a bit, until it gets mixed with the water already in the display tank.
Water Testing, do away with testing every three days as you say your are doing, you want to test every other day. My guess is you are testing every 3rd day and dosing your tank up to your target numbers, that's a big swing or at least a bigger swing than it needs to be, we don't want big swings, we want small swings. Test in the afternoon around 4 to 5 pm as best as you can.
Tank Parameters,,,, I may get blasted here,,, but I am sure I am sure I will get blasted for other things I have already said in this post
Make the target numbers in your tank ,,, Alk. 9.0 dkh Calcium 450 So, why am I telling you to make your Alk. target number 9.0 dkh when everyone else is telling you to make it a low 8 number. I was doing the same low 8 dkh in my tank at one time. The problem is water changes, the Alk. from the salt I was using was pushing my Alk. number up to a high 8 dkh number after the water change. Tank would take a few days for the Alk. to drop back down to my target number, a level where I could dose, if it did before the next water change. What you want to do is get your target Alk. number above the swings from the salt you are using. If you are having to dose even after the water change, you will be able to keep your tank more stable. I got that advice from a friend, has made my life a lot simpler To run GFO or to not run GFO You don't have a large system, I suggest you buy this:
http://www.nextreef.com/images/Shorty/Shorty.jpg
Its a quality reactor & the size you need for your system. I would run GFO if I were you, not a lot, 1/2 cup at best. you will need to check your Phosphate numbers for a time to see just what your numbers are at. I watched a video yesterday about Phosphates where the man giving the lecture said even a 1. something Phosphate number isn't a bad thing. I am sure he is right, but not being a " SPS Coral Whisper " what I am wanting in my system is stability, even when it comes to a Phosphate number. I couldn't tell you the last time I checked the Phosphate or Nitrate numbers in my tank. I let the corals tell me what I need to do at this point. I am sure I over feed my fish, not to the extreme though. Corals are alive and growing so I really don't care at this point what my Phosphate or Nitrate numbers are at.
Lights,,,, this is a tough one, so many brands of lights putting all different levels of Par into a tank, and the depth of your tank comes into play also. I started off with AI Sol Blues and upgraded to Hydras. But,,,to give you a easy,,, simple,,, answer here ,,,, if you are using LED light which most people with new tanks are using, this is what I would do, you are going to have to play with this and let your corals tell you what you need to do, keep in mind this is just a starting point with your lights. Place your lights about 10 to 11 inches over your tank, don't run your white lights more than 40% of their capable percentage. At some point your you will get the feel of what your corals can take & most likely raise the light percentage. We just don't want to be killing corals with your lights which is a easy thing to do.
I am sure I am not addressing some issue here, but doing this stuff has got me from where I was at, like you, killing corals, and onto being able to keep corals alive. Always keep in mind, stability, the smaller your system, the more you need stability and smaller the swings in your tank you can have. Always think same same same
ps2cho
Well-Known Member
I still haven't got my Triton test back yet and its been a few weeks...I am hoping I can get it back. I was doing bi-weekly water changes, not monthly since the increased feeding increased nutrients.
I think I need to do weekly though since my po4 and no3 have increased faster than I can do the water changes. I will do 10% per week, or 7g. I was doing 22% or 15g biweekly before.
Once I get my Triton test back I can be sure there is no heavy metals or stuff in the water.
I think I need to do weekly though since my po4 and no3 have increased faster than I can do the water changes. I will do 10% per week, or 7g. I was doing 22% or 15g biweekly before.
Once I get my Triton test back I can be sure there is no heavy metals or stuff in the water.
esteadma
Community Member
One trick I saw was getting a piece of string (or something like it) and tying it to the end of a stick and putting this right next to the sps to see what kind of flow your getting on that particular piece. Alternating wave patterns to get even flow over the whole piece seems to really help sps along.
