SPS tanks without skimmer?

Doreno · Jul 14, 2021

Hello,

What do you thing about keeping SPS tank without skimmer?

I plan to use a fleece roll filter (maybe Clarisea) to eliminate detritus, with a large chamber with a Chaeto, and small reactor with activated carbon.
The reason I am not planning to use the skimmer is very simple, there will be no space for it.
I understand that I cannot use carbon dosing without a skimmer, but I do not plan to use this method of exporting nutrients.

What are your thoughts, what are the possible cons.

I would like to create the most simple and convenient system to use.

Thanks!

Doreno · Jul 14, 2021

More details about my project:

I plan to use reefer 300xl (90cm length) with dry rocks and dry sand bed. Some bacteria on start like prodibio or microbacter7.

This is sump refsea reefer 300xl

I copied this image from this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-build-red-sea-reefer-xl300.749561/

I would use for refugium whole space on the right side of refugium, include skimmer chamber, since I think that standard refugium chamber is too small for refugium. Even if I will use whole space on the right side there will be only about 20 litres. This is about this is about 8% from total value of water in the system. If use only standard refugium chamber with skimmer (like on the image above) - it will be no more then 3-4% - really too small.

2x Tunze Eco Chic Refugium for refugium light. (this one on the image above) in the opposite mode with DT.

Filter socks I planing change to clarisea 3000 to prevent clogging Chaeto.

Reactor for activated carbon on the back side of the cabinet (not in sump) like brs small carbon reactor.
+ return pump and heater in sump. no more equpments in the sump.

For alk and ca will be used TM all-for-reef with dosing pump.

What do you think about chances for success with SPS with that build (without skimmer)?

Dkmoo · Jul 14, 2021

mechanical filtration, skimmer, and fuge target different stages of the nutrient cycle and take out different things - roller takes out uneaten food and part particles, skimmer takes out dissolved organic compounds, fuge takes out No3/Po4.

In terms of nutrient export - i think this is fine b/c eventually it all breaks down to no3/po4 and the fuge will take it out. However, without skimmer, you also need to think about the below areas:

1) Refugium takes more work to keep successful for a few different reasons:
a) fuge light needs to be able to out compete the DT light for the chaeto to be able to outcompete any algae growing in your DT. This is more difficult in SPS b/c your DT light will be a lot more powerful. This gets a bit more sensitive b/c too much fuge like can also burn out chaeto
b) macro algaes also deplete trace elements like iron so you will need to be dosing them
c) Chaeto is very "feast and famine" when it comes to absorbing nutrient - when there's a lot of NO3/Po4, it grows very fast and explode. when there's not enough, it will melt within a week. so it will have cycles and harder to keep stable

2) without Skimmer you won't be able to install CO2 scrubbers if later you have a pH/CO2 issue

3) without skimmer you also be impacted if you need to dose any kind of medication that require heavy skimming after treatment, or other produces like the zeovit coral snow that require skimmer to pull out nutrients.

01xp · Jul 14, 2021

Yes a skimmer isn't essential but with some of the small compact versions out there why not? Are you limited by height? Or just the lose of refugium space? This one is tiny would this work?

Doreno · Jul 14, 2021

01xp said:
Yes a skimmer isn't essential but with some of the small compact versions out there why not? Are you limited by height? Or just the lose of refugium space? This one is tiny would this work?

Yes, just do not want lose of refugium space. But return chamber is large enough and it might be possible to place some kind of hang-on nano-skimmer there along with the return pump, but not sure if such a nano-skimmer will get any advantages in this build ?? (too small air intake to use with CO2 scrubber)

maybe only for KZ coral snow, but I not planing to use it, I think reactor with activated carbon will be enough... maybe not

01xp · Jul 14, 2021

I mean I would rather have a skimmer to use c02 and or carbon dosing. 8% still isn't alot, did you look into a algea scrubber? It'll allow you to get the benifits of a refugium and you can run a skimmer

Doreno · Jul 14, 2021

01xp said:
I mean I would rather have a skimmer to use c02 and or carbon dosing. 8% still isn't alot, did you look into a algea scrubber? It'll allow you to get the benifits of a refugium and you can run a skimmer

Do not have any experience with algae scrubbers. But have good experience with refugium. Thank you for idea.

UnderseaOddities · Jul 14, 2021

For optimum color I would definitely go with the skimmer unless you only want single colored acro like brown purples blues and greens, that being said dont let this limit your sucsess.. I like your idea, I did something like this in the past but the fuge isnt and end all be all the key to a good system is biological,chemical and mechanical

Now you can get around the skimmer you can even get away with less dosing

With your system I would check the salinity in the am, test water quality(5 way testing) suck out the detritus daily and do a 25% after, check salinty again
Do this every day and make a schedule out of it

Get a good microbial input like microbacter 7 or nitrifying bacteria to help break down organic inputs

But my opinion a skimmer is a small price to pay for better water quality and optimum color I went without running a skimmer before and all of my coral that were triple threats(what I call tri colored sps) dulled down 2 colors then eventually their base color this can be frustrating if you just paid 150$ for a 3/4 in booger of"insert ridiculous name here. And it had 5 colors but you had it for a month now it dulled down to one

But how was coral kept before this... for many years people have kept coral without dosing pumps,skimmers 1000$ leds that are dimmable and programable... its ridiculous sometimes

The only difference between now and 10 to 20 years ago is technology advancement and the decline in value of the american dollar.

Acros were one color to two colors if they came from pristine tanks

Now acros show multiple faces based on chemistry,flow,lighting,environmental condition

With the evolution of technology we are seeing more colors appear based of how we are dosing,placement and if we use amino acid and probiotics

As long as you are dedicated and carry out a daily routine keep the water collumn free of pollution, the water chemistry stable your alk only swing a .1 or .2 up or down at any given time( the key to this is a good 3 part dosing)

I believe if you are thorough you can have acro with hob filtration... at the end of the day that radion g5 or apex dosing pump or ato or skimmer or carbon reactor doesnt keep the coral alive you do... as long as you're doing what you're supposed to be doing I've seen people with 300$ setups grow nicer coral with t5 hob power filter, nicer coral just feeding spirulina and mysis and doing a wc 2x a week and topping off by hand.. then somebody who dropped 10k on a waterbox,radions,reef octopus,apex and reactor and still killed 1000s of dollars in coral(doing to much 10 different aminos) his 10k pipedream coralfarm is now a freswater oscar tank...smh what a dummy(could have a quarter mil of acro in that bad boy, sells all equipment converts to freshwater and put 7$ monster fish in it... but to each is own I guess

Dkmoo · Jul 14, 2021

in all honestly - a 4% fuge vs 8% fuge isn't going to make that much difference vs the benefit of fitting an oversized skimmer in the sump. An algae reactor can be plumbed outside of the sump so you can likely get an even bigger algae reactor than what you would have had with a 8% fuge. You can then use that small 4% chamber and put some eggcrate/rock in it for pods and other microorganism so between that + the algae reactor you get the same benefit (if not more) than an 8% fuge.