Stacked sump?

[Casey-Reef]

The other day I saw a picture and a discussion about a stacked sump setup. For the life of me I can't find it again...

I'm looking at putting a sump in the basement to service my 125g and my 29g biocube.

I'm interested in making my own sump in a staircase arrangement where I drill the side of the sump tanks and have them flow from one to the next.

The thread I saw referenced using either rubbermaid or fish tanks with a plug in arrangement that you could slide tanks in and out of a staircase type sump arrangement either for modification or cleaning I believe.

I'm thinking the top chamber would be the protein skimmer, followed by a refugium, then the return pump in the 3rd section. But there may have been more sections.

Anybody have any links or information on such a sump setup?

I'm looking for tank sizes for each sump section. Petco is having their annual 1$ per gallon sale for tanks and I'm trying to determine what size to get for each section.

Thanks,

 

[Casey-Reef]

Found a reference to one here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...rstv-investigates.341149/page-11#post-4272325

 

[Mandelstam]

Remembered a video where MileHighReefers showed his stacked basement sump. Made of plastic sheep troughs. Pretty cool.

EDIT: Just realized that the upper two are used as frag tanks and not part of the filtration setup.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Hi Casey, I got your message and yes I'm the one who posted about the tiered sump. What would you like to know about it? Would be my pleasure to explain.

 

[Casey-Reef]

Hi Casey, I got your message and yes I'm the one who posted about the tiered sump. What would you like to know about it? Would be my pleasure to explain.

Everything!!!! lol

What size containers did you use?
What is each container used for?
Recommendations you can suggest?
Lessons learned that you would or would not due if you built another one?

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Maybe before answering your question I should explain why I set up this particular sump.
I'm part of a group of reefers here in the Philippines and it happened that our group had some event (a little similar to reefapalooza in the US but on a smaller scale). Our group engaged ourselves to set up two 90Gal display tanks that we had to maintain for 4 days, over a long weekend. The event was held in a shopping mall and since it was the first time we did this, we were a little unprepared and had some difficulties. So I set this up to be a portable solution should we have more event in the future (which most likely we will).
For the size of each section, I used a small plastic bin that comes with a cover and handles that clamp the cover down to keep it closed. This bin is sized small enough that it can fit into a larger transportation bin that has a similar cover system on it. Each section can be safely transported in a vehicle without having to worry about spilling saltwater inside the vehicle. The sump can be broken down in this way, making it more practical to transport. Even if it did spill, it would only spill inside the larger bin and that water could even be recovered, if desired, because the environment is clean. The particular bin I chose is 16"L x 12W" x 10"H [8.3Gals]. The PVC tubing is a 90* elbow inside the bin (one side threaded) coupled with an "adapter" - as its called here. It's basically a threaded end and a slip-on end. The threaded end of the adapter is screwed into the 90* elbow through a hole drilled into the side of the bin near the top and siliconed in place. The other parts of the PVC are another 90* elbow on the outside and a section of pipe to direct the water flow into the next tier of the sump. The 90* elbow on the outside and section of PVC are detachable so that the bin can fit into the transportation bin. I chose that size to be transportable, in terms of weight but basically, one could choose any size they wish.

In my particular setup, Tier 1 (highest) is a 3" SB(beige color, live - collected locally) with some local LR. I also have a powerhead in that section.
Tier 2 also has a 3" SB with coarse sand. This section has feather caulerpa, two different species of grape caulerpa, gracillaria, turtle grass and another kind of MA that I haven't identified yet. It's planted like a FW planted tank.
Tier 3 is a 6" - 8" DSB of fine white sand and a few LR pieces on the sand to mimic a tide pool/low tide environment.
Tier 4, last and lowest, has 6" of LR/rubble and some fine black sand filling in the rocks in 3/4 of the bin. The other part of the bin is sectioned off and houses the return pump and a carved LR that I use to insert an inverted 10L plastic container. (which I use to enable NSW dosing)

If you want to set this up, my suggestions would be to use glass tanks instead of plastic bins. Size the tanks based on a water volume that is comparable to your DT maybe slightly smaller volume. The tiers don't necessarily need to all match in size. You might choose to make last tier a little bigger to be able to retain all excess water that will drain down into it should there be a power failure and still have a little volume to spare. So some planning is probably required.

 

[Casey-Reef]

Maybe before answering your question I should explain why I set up this particular sump.
I'm part of a group of reefers here in the Philippines and it happened that our group had some event (a little similar to reefapalooza in the US but on a smaller scale). Our group engaged ourselves to set up two 90Gal display tanks that we had to maintain for 4 days, over a long weekend. The event was held in a shopping mall and since it was the first time we did this, we were a little unprepared and had some difficulties. So I set this up to be a portable solution should we have more event in the future (which most likely we will).
For the size of each section, I used a small plastic bin that comes with a cover and handles that clamp the cover down to keep it closed. This bin is sized small enough that it can fit into a larger transportation bin that has a similar cover system on it. Each section can be safely transported in a vehicle without having to worry about spilling saltwater inside the vehicle. The sump can be broken down in this way, making it more practical to transport. Even if it did spill, it would only spill inside the larger bin and that water could even be recovered, if desired, because the environment is clean. The particular bin I chose is 16"L x 12W" x 10"H [8.3Gals]. The PVC tubing is a 90* elbow inside the bin (one side threaded) coupled with an "adapter" - as its called here. It's basically a threaded end and a slip-on end. The threaded end of the adapter is screwed into the 90* elbow through a hole drilled into the side of the bin near the top and siliconed in place. The other parts of the PVC are another 90* elbow on the outside and a section of pipe to direct the water flow into the next tier of the sump. The 90* elbow on the outside and section of PVC are detachable so that the bin can fit into the transportation bin. I chose that size to be transportable, in terms of weight but basically, one could choose any size they wish.

In my particular setup, Tier 1 (highest) is a 3" SB(beige color, live - collected locally) with some local LR. I also have a powerhead in that section.
Tier 2 also has a 3" SB with coarse sand. This section has feather caulerpa, two different species of grape caulerpa, gracillaria, turtle grass and another kind of MA that I haven't identified yet. It's planted like a FW planted tank.
Tier 3 is a 6" - 8" DSB of fine white sand and a few LR pieces on the sand to mimic a tide pool/low tide environment.
Tier 4, last and lowest, has 6" of LR/rubble and some fine black sand filling in the rocks in 3/4 of the bin. The other part of the bin is sectioned off and houses the return pump and a carved LR that I use to insert an inverted 10L plastic container. (which I use to enable NSW dosing)

If you want to set this up, my suggestions would be to use glass tanks instead of plastic bins. Size the tanks based on a water volume that is comparable to your DT maybe slightly smaller volume. The tiers don't necessarily need to all match in size. You might choose to make last tier a little bigger to be able to retain all excess water that will drain down into it should there be a power failure and still have a little volume to spare. So some planning is probably required.

Thank you very much.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Recommendations you can suggest?
Lessons learned that you would or would not due if you built another one?

The idea behind this type of setup is to give yourself a place to work on your system. Personally, I wanted a place to work that didn't have anything to do with the eventual addition of one or several DTs. I wanted to be able to set up a system that was mature and DT ready but not necessarily required to actually have a DT added immediately. The thing that I find in this hobby is that in most cases the DT is the place were most of the work on the system is done. That's fine but when something goes wrong, it's difficult to manage and the DT ends up being the place where the maintenance work gets done which it's not the best place for. My personal opinion is that a DT should be a stable portion of a reef system that doesn't need to be tinkered with to manage the system. The sump should be the place where that happens. If theres a problem or a crash, it's managed in the sump. The sections can be bypassed, or moved around - meaning the tier in the first position can be switched with a tier from another position - for example 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd.
Let's say you find flatworms in your 1st tier. You can pull it from the system, take the 2nd tier and put it in the place of the first, then direct the flow (using a little temporary PVC) to the third tier. Do what you need to on that section and then replace back it into the stand and connect it to the system again.

Tips:
- The height of the stand holding the sections above each other, will determine the amount of flow pressure to the next section. To a certain extent, the water flow can be made to fall farther, creating more turbulence in the next tier
- Drain size will increase flow throughput in the system
- Tier sizes don't necessarily need to be equal. Some sections might be specially designed for some equipment or a particular biome
- The sump section can be used to store materials, livestock and even live food for the DT
- Multiple DTs can be connected to this kind of sump
- Have as many tiers as desired, depending on available space
- This kind of sump can be built in sections: Only the first tier is absolutely necessary to start. Drill your hole and install the drain but block it temporarily until the next tier is ready to be installed. (cycling can start immediately)
- This sump is perfect for a BB DT; can have a DSB in the system (in the sump) but no sand in the DT but still have the benefits. And the DSB is manageable without disturbing the DT, too.

Thank you very much.

Welcome. Anything else, just ask.

 

[Casey-Reef]

You defiantly have me thinking more about this.

I was not going to do a sand bed in the sump. Just a skimmer section, macro algae, empty section for future usage*, and a return section.

* future section could be sand bed, carbon/GFO, whatever

This sump was going to be put into the basement and the 125g & 29g connected to it and build a frag tank in the basement next to it.

I'm considering now what size tanks to use as the sump sections.

The current sump on the 125g is a 30g long that I made myself with sections glued in.

Suggestions greatly appreciated???

 

[Casey-Reef]

Rip Van Winkles stacked sump for reference

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Replied to your PM.

(sorry for the long post )

 

[Casey-Reef]

I'm thinking about setting up the sump with the ability to possibly grow larger. I'm interested in possibility of fragging coral to sell. Plumbing the 29g to the 125g would not really be practical because of the distance between the 2 tanks. The basement however has more then enough space. It has 10' ceilings also, so I need to push the water higher unfortunately for the return. I purchased a Pan World pump (1750gph 39'max) during the black Friday specials from BRS.

The 29g is a AIO BioCube. The 125g is built into the wall under the foyer steps. It has a small room with a sink at the end and a home made sump under the tank. I've considered plumping the 29g to the sump on the 125g. But it's very tight there as the room is the width of the steps with the ceiling sloping from the steps as well. Doing so would not allow me to add a frag tank https://imgur.com/gallery/8Abik

The frag tank, undecided at this time. Not sure if to use 30g/40g Breeder tank(s) or get a hydrophonics tray. I've seen them sized 22" x 36" x 7" which might be a nice size.

Right now I have 2 apex units. An older Apex on the 29g and the newest model on the 125g. I would move the Apex on the 125g to the basement sump. I have 2 Apex DOS pumps, 1 is setup for AWC on the 125g of which I'm changing 1g per day currently. The other will be setup for 2 part. I was doing Kalk in the ATO but I'm switching that to RO/DI. ATO is controlled by the Apex and is currently on a pump from my RO/DI storage container. Using float switches in the sump for ATO level as well as a 2nd float switch for a High water indicator in the sump.

The Apex on the 29g; I'm undecided on its future usage.

Petco has their annual fish tank sale going on, which is $1 per gallon. I'm considering the following tanks (LxWxH):
20g High 24" x 12" x 16" -don't think it would be wide enough, not enough volume
25g 24" x 12" x 20" - interesting size, if I can get by with 12"w, would have more then enough height, volume might be a problem
29g 30" x 12" x 18" - I almost went with this size, the skimmer would be tight in the 12" direction. I gain 2" in height over the 40gB
30g Breeder 36" x 18" x 12" -don't think it wold be tall enough once I drill for overflow to the next level
40g Breeder 36" x 18" x 16" -seems about right, will give me enough height and volume, don't need the 18" width but don't want to go custom tank.

I've determined that by drilling 3" below the top of the tank for the overflow to the next tank. The 29g would hold about 23g, the 40gB with a 3" drop would hold 36g, 13 more gallons in each sump for only $10 more makes more sense. I would rather have more total water volume in the system then less. That would be about 52g difference over the 4 tanks making up the sump. Total volume will be about 140g for the sump.

I have a reef octopus 200int skimmer that works really well. I may upgrade someday, but I really would like to use what I already have. I also have a GFO/Carbon Reactor Dual from BRS

I'm thinking the following sections from top to bottom will be:
1 Filter section, with filter socks
2 Protein skimmer
3 Refugium
4 Return pump, ATO float switch, Duel Reactor

Any suggestions for each section greatly appreciated????

The minimum height of the sump system with 4 tanks will be about 3'9" with a 50% overlap in height setting them up in a stair step arrangement.
If I drill all the tanks and add an elbow like Rip's sump picture above, but drill all the tanks on the same end. I can rotate the elbow to force flow the length of the tanks, but still allow me to easily slide out a tank if needed for maintenance or worst case replacement. Or to just change to order if I need to. Any thoughts on drilling the same front end of each tank?

DOS; If I continue with the AWC pull OSW from sump 1, NSW into sump 4
DOS; 2 part into sump 4 (I think???)

APEX probes (Temp, Salinity, PH, ORP) sump 4 (I think???)

Heater; not sure probably sump 3 or 4 ????

I plan on building Poor man nutrients control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer - I'm not sure into which sump to incorporate it into (thoughts????)


Basement sump: I have a basement sump under the concrete floor, which has a daylight drain of 4" PVC pipe that goes about 300' to daylight. (no sump pump required) I currently have my waste water from my RO/DI as well as my OSW going into the 4" pipe to daylight as I don't want either of those going into my septic system. The sump pit always has water in it. I've considered the idea of putting 50 to 100 feet of 1/4" plastic tubing coiled up into the sump and using it as a DIY poor mans chiller for the fish tanks. The water in the sump stays around 50* all year long. If I do that I'll have to figure out where to draw and return the DIY chiller lines. Which is another project entirely of which I may never need or do.

Moving on, I'm trying to determine building the structure to hold the tanks. I'm thinking maybe plywood sides with 2x4 cross members and cleats on the plywood. Or just going totally with 2x4. The plywood will give me more rigid support from twisting.

I'm considering using 1.5" pump discharge hose for the drain from the fish tanks on the 1st floor to the sump. Or I'll go PVC, but for the price the discharge hose seems like it would work. Thoughts????


I'm looking for any and all constructive feedback on the above. I would like to leverage everyone's wisdom to do this right the 1st time.