Stand: Need opinions & input

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

Hoping to get a wide array of input on this.

I'm designing a stand for a 90G cube at a special needs school. I won't go into the backstory as I really just want to focus one the questions I've got and move on to design from there.

First: orientation. For maximum viewing angle (think: a dozen+ kids sitting on floor or in wheelchairs) which would make better sense? A straight on view with 3 sides "accessible" like this

Or a 45 degree rotation with 2 sides fully visible like this

I kind of like the second one myself.

Might be a third option, offset the tank to the side so that a third side is fully visible and a different rotation, like 30 degrees...anyways, discuss

Second: sump. The issue is that "we" tend to think of putting the tank at a certain level. This doesn't work great for kids and esp those in WCs. So the idea is, tank on a low stand section and sump in a cabinet behind that is higher so that actual useable space is created. Great, but drainage is the issue. So here is my mad thought

Basically, a U (trap) that elbows over to horizontal into a T that is open on top (maybe a cap for splatter, but the point is, airlock relief).

This way I can fit a tall sump instead of a flat weird shaped one that would not hold any standard equipment easily and would be tough to access. And it could have some decent volume.

Problems? Worst case scenario type stuff I'm not thinking of?

Thanks in advance
Bud

 

[Anthony Wood]

Put the tank straight. Looking through the glass at a any sort of angle you'll have ugly distortion. The U in the pipe will work but I see flooding issuers it's going to take a moment to force the water up out of the U. If your pump is filling the tank faster then the time it takes for the siphone to start your in big trouble. Lift the tank just high enough to get the PVC above the rim of the sump. If that's to high still build a step in front of the tank for the kids to stand on. Do locked a canopy of the tank for safety. That way you won't have to worry about the kids putting their hands in the tank and/or grabbing the lights, light wires, powerhead wires etc... You can also tape off the tank and spray paint the corner the overflow pipes are the same color as the wall so it'll hide everything behind the overflow.

 

[Drauka99]

45 rotate, that U pipe would give me nightmares about cloging

 

[Anthony Wood]

Oh even better I just thought of this. This will solve the stand height issue being lower then the rim of the sump. Drill a hole into the side of the sump and run the drain straight down into a 90 elbow and run the drain the rest of the into the bulkhead. Problem solved! Just make sure the water level in the sump is just below where the water comes out of the bulkhead when the return is running. The bulkhead in the side of the sump will be 100% safer then a U. It's simple to drill glass just get a diamond glass hole bit and the proper sized bulkhead. Drill the hole and put the bulkhead on. I personally don't trust the rubber gasket that comes on bulkheads because I've had them leak. So I take it off and silicone the inside flange of the bulkhead and screw it down finger tight. 24 hours later and you have a water tight seal. If you ever have to take the bulkhead out with some force it'll come right out.

 

[Tautog]

Nice project!
The 45 degree is interesting, but with kids, think twice. Kids like to hang on things, pull things.
Better to keep it straight, with everything tucked away.
As far as height, keep it up and away. Kids don't need to have their noses on the glass. Remember, kids have to touch everything in reach. And if they can reach it, kids will deposit stuff in the tank. Special needs kids are no different than any other kid.....their curious. But, needy kids need to be watched always.
Your build should keep that in mind.
I have worked with special adults, over 20 yrs. old, and they need more watching than ever.
Good Luck, the kids will love it!

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

The U in the pipe will work but I see flooding issuers it's going to take a moment to force the water up out of the U. If your pump is filling the tank faster then the time it takes for the siphone to start your in big trouble

Well, it's not a siphon at least not a full one, it's a durso which are tricky to tune to begin with but I get what you are saying

Drill a hole into the side of the sump and run the drain straight down into a 90 elbow and run the drain the rest of the into the bulkhead. Problem solved! Just make sure the water level in the sump is just below where the water comes out of the bulkhead when the return is running.

that still means a lot profile sump though....hmmmmm was hoping to avoid that

So I take it off and silicone the inside flange of the bulkhead and screw it down finger tight. 24 hours later and you have a water tight seal.

This is generally not recommended actually, what you need is a better gasket vs the cheapo ones that come with it, a clean surface, don't over-tighten, and don't touch it once you have it in place or you will need to re-seat it. but anyways that's a different topic

The 45 degree is interesting, but with kids, think twice. Kids like to hang on things, pull things.

You're right of course, but I think that this is the case no matter how it's oriented. The comment from the school was that the previous stand actually got in the way of the kids being able to see things.

Thanks for all the comment/advice on security/etc - I had already planned to get these issues covered, mainly just working on the skeleton of the system first.

This is actually a re-boot of this system. The previous stand was never quite right and the school kept doing renovations so the tank was torn down and moved I think 3 or 4 times since 2011. Mishaps took a toll on that stand and it was toast, thus this thread regarding a new stand.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

As far as height, keep it up and away.

Lowering it was actually a request of theirs because the kids in wheelchairs couldn't see things very well. Trouble is, the sump area of the old stand was cramped as it was...

Special needs kids are no different than any other kid.....their curious. But, needy kids need to be watched always.
Your build should keep that in mind.
I have worked with special adults, over 20 yrs. old, and they need more watching than ever.

The staff does a pretty good job of making sure kids are not left unattended I believe but I will have to ask again for sure.

When the kids are acting up they plop them in front of the tank and they calm right down, I haven't seen it in person but I guess it's pretty amazing.

 

[Anthony Wood]

A Durso is just a open siphon in all restrospect. Which means there's air that breaks it up from being a full siphone the reason why there is a hole on top of the durso. Either way on a durso it takes time for the water to go up the sweeping 90 on the durso and a U aka pee trap adds more time.

If you drill a bulkhead into the side of the sump you don't have to go low profile on the sump it just gets rid of the U aka pee trap. The height of the sump won't matter because you can make the hole for the bulkhead at any level on the sump. What will change is the water level in the tank. You can't make the water level higher then the bulkhead. You could have a 10ft tall sump but if you drilled it to have the bulkhead at say 24" the water level in the sump at to be a millimeter or more lower then the hole of the bulkhead. The issue you may run into drilling a bulkhead is if it's lower then what the skimmer has to be in to function properly. what I'm saying is you can have whatever size sump you want if you drill a hole into the side.

For siliconing the bulkhead you can do it however you want lol that's just the way I do it and have done it on 7 tanks/15 bulkheads and have never had an issue. The biggest thing I've run into doing it this way is that when I went to go move a tank and had to take the bulkheads out the seal between The glass and bulkhead was so strong I had to use pliers and break the bulkhead in order to remove it. Which helps the point of how strong the seal is on the bulkhead with no gasket. I use building grade silicone that is meant for putting tanks together not the marineland silicone that's meant to be used only for patch jobs. Since the bit always drills a hole quite a bit larger then the stem of the bulkhead, I always put enough silicone on that it completely fills that void and starts coming out the back where the nut has a couple threads that have silicone in them. I'm not saying it's the most correct way to do it but I know it works and trust it not to leak so that's the way I do it. But hey like I said do it the way you like to do it!

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

You can't make the water level higher then the bulkhead

I understand what you're saying and this might work, I'd have to lay it all out though.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

I use building grade silicone that is meant for putting tanks together not the marineland silicone that's meant to be used only for patch jobs. Since the bit always drills a hole quite a bit larger then the stem of the bulkhead, I always put enough silicone on that it completely fills that void and starts coming out the back where the nut has a couple threads that have silicone in them. I'm not saying it's the most correct way to do it but I know it works and trust it not to leak so that's the way I do it

That's a bit more detail, which clarifies it - that's not like the typical advice of "just use some silicone in that thar spot" - ^^ this makes sense

 

[Anthony Wood]

I edited my previous post a little and added something. Not sure if you saw it but just make sure the bulkhead isn't lower then the water level required by your skimmer to run properly. That's the only problem I see you may run into. In your sump sketch just take out the pee trap and have the pipe coming from the bottom of the tank go into a 90 elbow then just extend the pipe directly into the side of the tank instead of over the rim. Sorry I'm repeating myself on that just making sure my idea came across clearly unlike my first statement about siliconing the bulkhead.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

Roger that!

 

[Anthony Wood]

If your building the stand don't over complicate it. You would be amazed how much wood can withstand. My buddy put his 45 cube on 1x3's and is rock solid you could easily get away with 1x4's. If it makes you feel better you could do 2x4's buts that's over kill. Get the premium pine unless you have a better source then Lowes or Home Depot because their non premium wood is junk...can never find a straight piece.

Here's a picture of my old 125g stand I build with 2x4's and that was 2k lbs with the rock, sand and water. Just 4 legs butted on top and bottom of two 2x4 rectangles. No center support was needed or wanted because they get in the way. The gap between the tank and wood isn't from the weight the piece of wood wasn't perfectly straight. For accessibility the entire front came off and was held on by latches on the sides. The front was built with 1x2's and th thinnest plywood I could get so it was super light. The sides have the same plywood. The entire stand was so light that when I had to move the tank. I was able to pickup and move the stand down some stairs by myself. Just throwing some ideas out there that's all.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

It's being professionally built by Benner's

 

[Anthony Wood]

It's being professionally built by Benner's

Even better! Best of luck!

 

[redfishbluefish]

Do you have the option of putting in a Glass-Holes overflow, eliminating that mess coming out the bottom of the tank? I'd think that would make things a little easier.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics Verified Sponsor]

Probably not, I could do something like that but I would probably do a BA if I was going to cut out the RR overflow. This is why the 45 rotation seemed like a good idea. Which might actually work to dump straight into the sump if done right, but would make the sump placement more permanent and may not work well structurally