Star marine ecologist committed misconduct, university says

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Exxon Misled the Public on Climate Change, Study Says...​

Guess who is a $1-5 million donor at UD...
Again, I am not saying who is right, but people tend to not want to ask the hard questions...

What are you proposing exactly? The university receiving the money (assuming it’s true, I haven’t checked) is the same University whose investigation found wrongdoing by one of its own.

Universities do not investigate or vette professors work in the absence of some sort of allegation.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

What are you proposing exactly? The university receiving the money (assuming it’s true, I haven’t checked) is the same University whose investigation found wrongdoing by one of its own.

Universities do not investigate or vette professors work in the absence of some sort of allegation.

To answer your second question Randy. Yes, Exxon-Mobil is one of a few donors to that opposes climate change.

Campaign Donors | Delaware First | University of Delaware

Thank you to the many generous individuals and organizations who have chosen to support UD's people, programs and passions.

www.udel.edu

Yes, that "black eye" as you said, may hurt, but it is only temporary. Whereas a new wing or addition will last forever...
Again, I must reiterate so you don't get your test tubes in a bunch, I am just asking questions.
It can work both ways, If Danielle Dixon did rush or falsify her results, Why? Did she get paid off by a pro-climate change advocacy group?
In your world, the difference between theoretic homelessness and life is your next research grant.
It's all really Schrodinger's cat until we look in the box... Which is all I'm asking people to do.

 

[Shooter6]

To answer your second question Randy. Yes, Exxon-Mobil is one of a few donors to that opposes climate change.

Campaign Donors | Delaware First | University of Delaware

Thank you to the many generous individuals and organizations who have chosen to support UD's people, programs and passions.

www.udel.edu

Yes, that "black eye" as you said, may hurt, but it is only temporary. Whereas a new wing or addition will last forever...
Again, I must reiterate so you don't get your test tubes in a bunch, I am just asking questions.
It can work both ways, If Danielle Dixon did rush or falsify her results, Why? Did she get paid off by a pro-climate change advocacy group?
In your world, the difference between theoretic homelessness and life is your next research grant.
It's all really Schrodinger's cat until we look in the box... Which is all I'm asking people to do.

ExxonMobil Mobil is promoting climate change as reasons for them to diversify energy investments. So your claim sounds more of a

Sustainability Report | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil is committed to improving quality of life by meeting the needs of society.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Well, I feel everybody missed my point, if I go any further it will just sound like trolling. Which is not my intention. So I am ending my participation in this thread here, so I can concentrate my efforts to end the "Fragging Ban"

 

[rtparty]

If lowering of pH is causing mass die off, why do we not see that in our tanks?

 

[HomebroodExotics]

If lowering of pH is causing mass die off, why do we not see that in our tanks?

and higher temps

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

To answer your second question Randy. Yes, Exxon-Mobil is one of a few donors to that opposes climate change.

Campaign Donors | Delaware First | University of Delaware

Thank you to the many generous individuals and organizations who have chosen to support UD's people, programs and passions.

www.udel.edu

Yes, that "black eye" as you said, may hurt, but it is only temporary. Whereas a new wing or addition will last forever...
Again, I must reiterate so you don't get your test tubes in a bunch, I am just asking questions.
It can work both ways, If Danielle Dixon did rush or falsify her results, Why? Did she get paid off by a pro-climate change advocacy group?
In your world, the difference between theoretic homelessness and life is your next research grant.
It's all really Schrodinger's cat until we look in the box... Which is all I'm asking people to do.

I don’t see how this relates to your suggestion to be skeptical of the wrongdoing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If lowering of pH is causing mass die off, why do we not see that in our tanks?

Is someone claiming it causes mass die off at pH levels we maintain? I’ve seen various mixed results.

Nutrients way above natural levels?

Alk and Calcium above natural levels?

we don’t keep tanks long enough to see?

It’s just one of many stressors and we limit the others? (Temp, coralavores, pathogens, etc)

Natural selection of those more likely to survive?

 

[WVNed]

Sadly
My impression of current science comes from a person that was a grad student and has nothing to do with current news. It happened a long time ago.

If you wish to have a future you confirm the current group think hypotheses when you collect data in the field.
That person is in a position of some importance now with the government.

Science is just more politics now.

 

[rtparty]

Is someone claiming it causes mass die off at pH levels we maintain? I’ve seen various mixed results.

Nutrients way above natural levels?

Alk and Calcium above natural levels?

we don’t keep tanks long enough to see?

It’s just one of many stressors and we limit the others? (Temp, coralavores, pathogens, etc)

Natural selection of those more likely to survive?

How long must some of these tanks be up with pH well below the 8.1 average (or whatever the ocean is at) before we see these issues?

I guarantee if I take my current setup and lower the average pH by .1, it will not skip a beat.

We see 25 year old tanks with an average pH of 7.8 and don't see widespread death.

So again, if pH fluctuating is so dangerous, how do we even maintain our aquariums? I mean we see .3 to .4 swings daily for a decade and the corals do fine.

Yet, the ocean sees a .1 decline over 30 odd years and all the sudden every coral reef in the world is going to die?

Methinks something else it at play and acidification has very little, if anything, to do with it.

In no way, shape, or form can it be replicated or proven. Not exactly science.

 

[Shooter6]

How long must some of these tanks be up with pH well below the 8.1 average (or whatever the ocean is at) before we see these issues?

I guarantee if I take my current setup and lower the average pH by .1, it will not skip a beat.

We see 25 year old tanks with an average pH of 7.8 and don't see widespread death.

So again, if pH fluctuating is so dangerous, how do we even maintain our aquariums? I mean we see .3 to .4 swings daily for a decade and the corals do fine.

Yet, the ocean sees a .1 decline over 30 odd years and all the sudden every coral reef in the world is going to die?

Methinks something else it at play and acidification has very little, if anything, to do with it.

In no way, shape, or form can it be replicated or proven. Not exactly science.

I would believe pollution, fertilizer runoff, possibly ozone layer reduction increasing uv and ir exposed rates. Change of currents all could be possible triggers that have not been properly explored.

 

[Gatorpa]

Yes this is very sad! ....The Alzheimer's research scandal is another example of this type of "made up" research outcomes....Hurts the confidence in research results in general...vey sad

What AD research scandal are you referring to?

 

[Malcontent]

What AD research scandal are you referring to?

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

Psychiatry also took a hit recently:

“No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels, say study authors

The authors of a large review say there is no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations, and have questioned the reasons behind high prescribing rates of antidepressants. They say the chemical imbalance theory of depression is still...

www.bmj.com

 

[Spare time]

Exxon Misled the Public on Climate Change, Study Says...​

Guess who is a $1-5 million donor at UD...
Again, I am not saying who is right, but people tend to not want to ask the hard questions...

What would that have to do with anything? That is only a concern if they are funding the study and the study shows conflicts of interest (which would then get scrutinized as you have to state funding sources for the work).

 

[Spare time]

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

Psychiatry also took a hit recently:

“No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels, say study authors

The authors of a large review say there is no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations, and have questioned the reasons behind high prescribing rates of antidepressants. They say the chemical imbalance theory of depression is still...

www.bmj.com

That is not exactly the story you think it is. It is not saying anti depressants don't work, its just arguing that their positive effects aren't due to low seratonin levels/activity. Its has also been poorly reported by others as SSRIs (the common anti depressent) doesn't increase serotonin in the brain, so it doesn't make sense for people to say depressants don't work because depressants are not increasing serotonin in the brain.

This pharmacist does a good job of explaining it

 

[Spare time]

How long must some of these tanks be up with pH well below the 8.1 average (or whatever the ocean is at) before we see these issues?

I guarantee if I take my current setup and lower the average pH by .1, it will not skip a beat.

We see 25 year old tanks with an average pH of 7.8 and don't see widespread death.

So again, if pH fluctuating is so dangerous, how do we even maintain our aquariums? I mean we see .3 to .4 swings daily for a decade and the corals do fine.

Yet, the ocean sees a .1 decline over 30 odd years and all the sudden every coral reef in the world is going to die?

Methinks something else it at play and acidification has very little, if anything, to do with it.

In no way, shape, or form can it be replicated or proven. Not exactly science.

Our tanks, are not the ocean. In absolutely no way to we keep corals under a "natural" setting. Its the same reason why you can't study a gorillas dietary ecology while at a zoo. And no one is saying a 0.1 pH drop is going to kill the reefs except for websites and outlets that make money from ads when you click on them. The concern is the current projection to hit 7.8 (or lower) which would have serious issues for calcifying organisms, in regards the behavior of non-calcifying organisms. Our tanks are not like the oceans. This is also a very rapid and sustained drop, which almost always doesn't give enough time for genetic variation to ride out the pressure of selection. Rapid and extreme environmental changes result in mass extinctions. This is just talking about acidification, not all the other things humans are doing to the reefs.

Again, realize you have a fish tank. You don't have 4-8 years of rigorous academic and scientific training, and thousands of hours of research. You are a person with a fish tank, who is claiming to understand a topic better 99.999% of experts. Ask yourself, who is more likely to be right? You? Or 99.99999% of marine biologists, marine biochemist, etc.? Even if you choose to ignore all of the information above, you would have to then say "yes I am the real expert and everyone else is wrong, and I have the internet to back me on that." Can't you see this error? Can't you and others who think alike see how unsound these arguments are?

 

[Spare time]

ExxonMobil Mobil is promoting climate change as reasons for them to diversify energy investments. So your claim sounds more of a

Sustainability Report | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil is committed to improving quality of life by meeting the needs of society.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

I don't think you quite understand how PR works. The whole point of PR is to make themselves sound like the good guy in the eyes of the public. Also that argument is incredibly weak. Your logic is that they must spread a lie about their products being bad so that they can invest in new products. Really? When was the last time a company said, "Hey! All this stuff we make that you buy is terrible! Stop buying our products we have and try a new forumla!" Do you also believe that coca cola is making up that plastic doesn't degrade easily so that they can sell you sprite in an aluminum can? Its the same logic. Companies can invest in multiple products (i.e. an energy company investing in a non oil product) because it makes them less reliant in a single product and creates a more stable company.

 

[Rick Mathew]

What AD research scandal are you referring to?

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

 

[MartinM]

In being the Devils Advocate on this one...
In a severely competitive male dominated field, what was the motive of the whistle blowers?
Do these papers not go through a peer review? If it had, why were these ?'s not asked before?
I'm seems from the article, it wasn’t the results,, but the method of obtaining the results.
Basically her career is over. If it is true, who created the pressure to take shortcuts in obtaining the results.
These are the ?'s you have to ask yourself.

Marine biology is a heavily female dominated field USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and most European countries I believe.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How long must some of these tanks be up with pH well below the 8.1 average (or whatever the ocean is at) before we see these issues?

I guarantee if I take my current setup and lower the average pH by .1, it will not skip a beat.

We see 25 year old tanks with an average pH of 7.8 and don't see widespread death.

So again, if pH fluctuating is so dangerous, how do we even maintain our aquariums? I mean we see .3 to .4 swings daily for a decade and the corals do fine.

Yet, the ocean sees a .1 decline over 30 odd years and all the sudden every coral reef in the world is going to die?

Methinks something else it at play and acidification has very little, if anything, to do with it.

In no way, shape, or form can it be replicated or proven. Not exactly science.

I’m not sure folks are claiming the catastrophic effects you suggest from acidification alone.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2015265118

“ Projected reduced coral cover due to bleaching events predominately drives these declines rather than the direct physiological impacts of ocean warming and acidification on calcification or bioerosion.”